Cardiff East Parkway

[Envoy]

I see that plans for the Cardiff East Parkway station on the main line between Cardiff & Newport - have been ‘called in’ by the Welsh Government. It appears that the land is “a site of Special Scientific Interest”. Lets be quite clear - this is not natural land. From Roman times the flat lands between Cardiff . Newport and the Severn bridges have been artificially drained by the cutting of reens in order to make productive farmland. Of course, it is true that these man made reens have provided a haven for wildlife.

Whether the business park should be built at this location is another matter. However, I consider having a railway station at this location as absolutely essential. The citizens of east Cardiff have to either go all the way into Cardiff Central or Newport in order to get access to the railway. This involves lengthy journeys on congested roads often in the direction which they do not intend to travel by train. The result is that they are more likely not to use the trains and travel entire journeys by car.

Plans for £120m new parkway train station in Cardiff on hold

The Cardiff Parkway Station and associated Hendre Lakes business park now has to wait for the Welsh Government's decision

www.walesonline.co.uk

Hopes of building a new £120m mainline train station on the outskirts of Cardiff are on hold after the Welsh Government called in the project. The decision means that final planning approval must now wait for the recommendation of an inspector appointed to assess the project. Welsh Government ministers will make the final decision.

Cardiff council leader Huw Thomas had pledged to work tirelessly to ensure the project is delivered as a key new public transport hub - with the aim of serving 800,000 rail passengers a year - and employment location for the wider Cardiff Capital City Region.

 

[PaulHarding150]

Urgh. This is disappointing. Any indication as to why this has been called in now not years ago when this station was first proposed?

 

[WesternBiker]

This is disappointing, but surely the fact the site was an SSSI must have been taken account of in the original planning application? And Cardiff Council would have had to have consulted Natural Resources Wales as part of their own determination.

There's an article here from the The National website (text below) which may shed light on it: it says it is the Friends of Gwent Levels who have asked for the application to be called in - presumably the request was made after lobbying of Cardiff Council failed.

The article also says that the Friends of the Gwent Levels was founded in 2020 by their spokesperson - it is not clear how large or representative the group is, but they are citing the Welsh Government's own Wellbeing of Future Generations Act as the basis for the challenge (on the grounds that it will encourage more car use rather than "active travel" - which I take to mean car-free travel?).

Campaigners call for 'reduced' size Cardiff Parkway station​

APPROVED plans for a new Cardiff Parkway railway station and business park have been met with fierce opposition by campaigners working to protect the local environment.

The station, the first for eastern Cardiff and which will form part of the mainline, will be built on farmland near St Mellons on the environmentally sensitive Gwent Levels.

Friends of the Gwent Levels says the planned railway station is too big and will only encourage more car use.
Plans for the new railway station, along with a business park with buildings up to 15 storeys high, were approved by Cardiff Council on Wednesday, April 4. A start date for construction has not been confirmed, but the station is due to open in 2024.

The group has asked the Welsh Government to ‘call in’ the plans – a process by which the government would review the proposals of particular concern and make changes if necessary – noting that its concept predates a declaration of a biodiversity crisis by the Welsh Government, as well as the “seismic shift to work and health which has been brought about by covid.”

Catherine Linstrum, who founded Friends of the Gwent Levels back in 2020, says one of the primary problems with the station is the amount of car travel it could encourage. “The idea of creating a parkway station is not what we should be doing,” Ms Linstrum told the Argus. “There’s going to be 1,800 car park spaces which just seems completely out of touch and against the Burns commission, which is about encouraging active travel. “We’re really upset about it because it goes against the Future Generations Act. What we would like to see is a reduced, modest station that encourages active travel – not more cars on our roads.”

The Burns Commission was formed after the planned M4 relief road, which would have been built across the Levels, was scrapped in 2019. It has since produced a number of recommendations aimed at increasing public transport use in and around Newport. The Welsh Government's Wellbeing of Future Generations Act requires public bodies to consider the long-term impact of any decision.

A neighbouring business park was granted planning permission with 90,000sqm of commercial floorspace, which could include buildings up to 15 storeys high, along with the railway station. Ms Linstrum believes that the proposed office space is unnecessary and should be focussed on locations in the city centre. “The amount of empty office space available in city centres right now is shocking,” she added. “Cardiff is full of new buildings – there’s absolutely no need for it. It feels like we’re stuck in a time warp because this idea was cooked up 20 odd years ago – we’ve moved on from then.” The development is being privately built by Cardiff Parkway Developments Ltd, with backing from the Welsh Government. Most new train stations tend to be built by the public sector.
At this week's planning meeting it was acknowledged the business park is part of the business plan financing the new station.

Developers have previously said the new railway station would mean journeys to Cardiff Central in seven minutes, and the business park would have the potential to provide 6,000 jobs. The Welsh Government has been approached for comment.

 

[DaveHarries]

If I put my precise thoughts about the gripe over any supposed lack of opportunities for so-called "active travel" then use of a certain word would possibly get me suspended from this forum - - but suffice it to say that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink it.

I understand the unwillingness to see the business park built in an environmentally service area but perhaps 1800 spaces is OTT for the car park of the proposed station given that a fair degree of use of this station, certainly from local inhabitants, could well be from passengers coming by two bus routes which operate using electric vehicles and which would probably be rerouted to serve the new station and / or the business park.

Dave

 

[PaulHarding150]

The 1800 space car park is presumably for the Business Park and the Railway Station?

As lovley as building a Business Park next to a railway station is, it’s fanciful to imagine that everyone will travel to/from it by rail.

 

[Envoy]

Cardiff Council are certainly not happy about the Welsh Government ‘calling in’ this project. The Cardiff East Parkway station would have a massive impact on east - west flows across south Wales. (The Metro is mainly about north - south flows between the valleys, city and coast with some east - west movement as well such as the cross city line).

Cardiff Council leader 'frustrated' at delay to Parkway station plans

The development has been called in for consideration by the Welsh Government, despite winning planning approval in April by Cardiff Council

www.walesonline.co.uk

Cardiff Council's leader has expressed his frustration after plans for a major new railway station were put on hold. The Hendre Lakes development, which includes plans for a new business park and £120m mainline train station in St Mellons, was approved by Cardiff Council in April.

 

[oglord]

The Cardiff East Parkway station would have a massive impact on east - west flows across south Wales.

Really? I'm not sure how it helps congestion between M4 J24-28 at all. It just seems like an environmental sweetener to get their business park approved. What are the chances of it being built at all once the business park is there?

 

[Nick Ashwell]

Really? I'm not sure how it helps congestion between M4 J24-28 at all. It just seems like an environmental sweetener to get their business park approved. What are the chances of it being built at all once the business park is there?

If those people working there live to the east it has a major effect. That said, WAG has tried very hard to turn parts of South Eastern Wales into Bristolian suburbs aimed at supplying England with workers with housing. This may play well politically as a jobs thing, but in reality we're at peak employment in Soutj Wales so the employment benefits aren't as massive.

Where it could come into its own is as a park and ride into Cardiff, but that, as you say, does nothing to help Newport area traffic

 

[Envoy]

If somebody living in east Cardiff (St.Mellons / Rumney/ Llanrumney/ Pentwyn/Llanedeyrn/ Marshfield wishes to travel east to say Filton, Bristol, Bristol Airport, Bath, Chepstow, Gloucester, Abergavenny - in fact anywhere in England, to do it by train they have to first go in the wrong direction to Cardiff Central or into Newport. Quite frankly, most would not bother and choose to drive all the way - which of course includes the nightmare that is the Newport tunnel choke point. Likewise, for those going to places west of Cardiff, they will choose to drive all the way because it is simply too time consuming and awkward to reach the railway. (Residents of St.Mellons, Marshfield and Trowbridge would surely also choose to use the railway from Parkway to reach Cardiff Central rather than drive in or use the buses).

If the Welsh Government decide not to allow this Parkway station to proceed because they don’t want people to drive from their homes in east Cardiff to it, then I am afraid they will be shooting themselves in the foot. Yes, it is desirable that they would reach the new station on foot, bicycle or on a bus but the reality is that if they can’t drive to it they won’t bother and therefore make longer journeys by car. Cars are also gradually going electric so the pollution / global warming argument touted by The Future Generations Commission for Wales & others will no longer stand up. Whether having a business park at this location is desirable is another matter.

Mention has been made of Bristol’s overspill housing in the south east corner of Wales. Surely the Welsh Government would not be encouraging this? It has happened because of land prices and pressure from house building companies and lack of available land in the Bristol area.

 

[DaveHarries]

If somebody living in east Cardiff (St.Mellons / Rumney/ Llanrumney/ Pentwyn/Llanedeyrn/ Marshfield wishes to travel east to say Filton, Bristol, Bristol Airport, Bath, Chepstow, Gloucester, Abergavenny - in fact anywhere in England, to do it by train they have to first go in the wrong direction to Cardiff Central or into Newport. Quite frankly, most would not bother and choose to drive all the way - which of course includes the nightmare that is the Newport tunnel choke point. Likewise, for those going to places west of Cardiff, they will choose to drive all the way because it is simply too time consuming and awkward to reach the railway. (Residents of St.Mellons, Marshfield and Trowbridge would surely also choose to use the railway from Parkway to reach Cardiff Central rather than drive in or use the buses).

If this Cardiff East Parkway went ahead then when the opening date was confirmed I would, if the say so was mine - which it likely wouldn't be - revise the buses around the Llanrumney & St. Mellons areas to sort the bus connections out for the new station. Such an idea would entail combining the 44 & 45 (St. Mellons) with the 49 & 50 (Llanrumney) routes to make two larger circular routes - one clockwise, one anti-clockwise - linking both areas on high-frequencies (which all 4 routes already are on Mondays to Saturdays during the day) and both serving the new station.

Such an idea might mean loss of buses along part of the 49 route with another route being needed to provide replacement journeys though so how well that would work and how well it would go down with the locals I don't know. It would be one solution though. Also you would have to find some way of implementing a route - probably by extension of an existing one - to link Pentwyn & Pontprennau to the new station.

Dave

 

[WesternBiker]

If somebody living in east Cardiff (St.Mellons / Rumney/ Llanrumney/ Pentwyn/Llanedeyrn/ Marshfield wishes to travel east to say Filton, Bristol, Bristol Airport, Bath, Chepstow, Gloucester, Abergavenny - in fact anywhere in England, to do it by train they have to first go in the wrong direction to Cardiff Central or into Newport. Quite frankly, most would not bother and choose to drive all the way - which of course includes the nightmare that is the Newport tunnel choke point. Likewise, for those going to places west of Cardiff, they will choose to drive all the way because it is simply too time consuming and awkward to reach the railway. (Residents of St.Mellons, Marshfield and Trowbridge would surely also choose to use the railway from Parkway to reach Cardiff Central rather than drive in or use the buses).

If the Welsh Government decide not to allow this Parkway station to proceed because they don’t want people to drive from their homes in east Cardiff to it, then I am afraid they will be shooting themselves in the foot. Yes, it is desirable that they would reach the new station on foot, bicycle or on a bus but the reality is that if they can’t drive to it they won’t bother and therefore make longer journeys by car. Cars are also gradually going electric so the pollution / global warming argument touted by The Future Generations Commission for Wales & others will no longer stand up. Whether having a business park at this location is desirable is another matter.

Mention has been made of Bristol’s overspill housing in the south east corner of Wales. Surely the Welsh Government would not be encouraging this? It has happened because of land prices and pressure from house building companies and lack of available land in the Bristol area.

Saved me composing - I agree with all of that!

The whole point of Parkway stations is to encourage drivers to do at least part of the journey by rail. Many towns have successful park and ride systems (often involving buses too).

 

[Envoy]

Cardiff East Parkway is planned for the main line in the St.Mellons area of Cardiff. It is in association with plans for a new business park by the station. I thought it would have been a top priority for the Welsh Government being as they want to reduce traffic on the M4. (It simply is not worth it for many people in this highly populated area to have to go into Cardiff Central or Newport to catch trains - so they drive).

The Welsh Government ‘called in’ the plans last year for further consideration. Months have now gone by and we have heard nothing. So, what is going on? Anyone got any news on this?

PS> This is not a 'Speculative Idea’ but a planned development of a new station.

 

[zwk500]

Last update I can find is October 2022 when the decision was called in.

 

[CapitalStar378]

I tweeted the Welsh Government a few months ago and they didn't bother to reply so who knows? Seems odd to drag it out for so long, it's quite a key project to alleviate the lack of an M4 relief road.

 

[PaulHarding150]

There was to be a public enquirey starting on the 11th July but this has now been downrated to a Hearing.

 

[Tazilly]

A hearing isn't really a downrated public inquiry; it's just as serious - just less formal.

The intention is that it should be easier for third parties to speak and, in my experience, that's how it is.

 

[Envoy]

Hearings are taking place on July 11 & 12 2023 regarding whether to not Cardiff East Parkway should go ahead.

Hopefully we will soon know whether or not this station is going to be built.

welsh-government-issue-major-update-27280100

"A date has been set for discussions that could decide the future of a multi-million pound Cardiffrailway development. The two-day call-in hearing about the Cardiff Parkway railway station development, which is proposed for land to the south of St Mellons Business Park, has been set for Tuesday and Wednesday, July 11 and 12".

 

[CapitalStar378]

Hearings are taking place on July 11 & 12 2023 regarding whether to not Cardiff East Parkway should go ahead.

I tried to post this under the original Cardiff East Parkway thread but for some odd reason it has been locked so I have had to start again here. Hopefully new will soon know whether or not this station is going to be built.

welsh-government-issue-major-update-27280100

I think the bone of contention is the business park rather than the station, but one relies on the other so we'll see. I reckon the business park will be required to be scaled back after the hearing.

 

[Envoy]

An article about the ‘hearings’ has been published.

Why group doesn't want Cardiff Parkway project built on SSSI

Their concerns are despite a councillor claiming the development could transform one of the poorest areas of Wales

www.walesonline.co.uk

"The business park and railway station proposed for land to the south of St Mellons Business Park, is hoped to attract investment into the area and improve connectivity between east and west Cardiff."

 

[Envoy]

Planning Inspectors are now looking into the Cardiff East Parkway & Hendre Lakes Development at St.Mellons.

Local press update:> https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/plans-new-cardiff-railway-station-28464405

"Advocates for Cardiff Parkway Railway Station have said the scheme represents an exception to new planning guidance which places greater importance on the environment. A Planning and Environment Decisions Wales (PEDW) hearing on the proposed development, earmarked for land south of St Mellons Business Park, was reopened on Tuesday, January 16".

 

[Last Hurrah]

Planning Inspectors are now looking into the Cardiff East Parkway & Hendre Lakes Development at St.Mellons.

Local press update:> https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/plans-new-cardiff-railway-station-28464405

Are we any nearer to a decision on this ?

 

[Envoy]

Looks like the Welsh Government are all talk and no action when it comes to the additional stations between Cardiff and the Severn Tunnel. Cardiff East Parkway, Tredegar Park, Llanwern, Magor - not one then is being built as of now and goodness knows if or when they will be? (They cancelled the south of Newport M4 saying they would get additional stations built to try and get traffic off the jammed Newport section due to the tunnels).

 

[slowroad]

Looks like the Welsh Government are all talk and no action when it comes to the additional stations between Cardiff and the Severn Tunnel. Cardiff East Parkway, Tredegar Park, Llanwern, Magor - not one then is being built as of now and goodness knows if or when they will be? (They cancelled the south of Newport M4 saying they would get additional stations built to try and get traffic off the jammed Newport section due to the tunnels).

Perhaps they have belatedly looked at the numbers. Plausible figures for station use imply barely detectable effects on the M4. (And in any case suppressed demand on the M4 means you need a lot of extra capacity to make a lasting difference.)

 

[Brissle Girl]

Perhaps they have belatedly looked at the numbers. Plausible figures for station use imply barely detectable effects on the M4. (And in any case suppressed demand on the M4 means you need a lot of extra capacity to make a lasting difference.)

Exactly. It was always absurd to imagine that a few stations on the main line would remove the need for the M4 relief road.

 

[Envoy]

Exactly. It was always absurd to imagine that a few stations on the main line would remove the need for the M4 relief road.

Totally agree.

 

[lachlan]

Would be easier to reintroduce tolls - commuters are price sensitive and if driving across the bridge and taking the Bristol Park and Ride is the cheapest option, they'll choose it.

 

[Envoy]

Would be easier to reintroduce tolls - commuters are price sensitive and if driving across the bridge and taking the Bristol Park and Ride is the cheapest option, they'll choose it.

Tolls inhibit the free movement of people from a to b. The tolls collected paid for the construction of the bridge.

I hear that the new car park at Severn Tunnel Junction has plenty of space. If they built a direct link from the former toll plaza on the M4 plus another from the M48, it surely would be more popular?

I also note that GWR have done nothing to market their 5 coach IET stopping services between Cardiff & Bristol and S west.

 

[Brissle Girl]

Tolls inhibit the free movement of people from a to b. The tolls collected paid for the construction of the bridge.

I hear that the new car park at Severn Tunnel Junction has plenty of space. If they built a direct link from the former toll plaza on the M4 plus another from the M48, it surely would be more popular?

I also note that GWR have done nothing to market their 5 coach IET stopping services between Cardiff & Bristol and S west.

Yes, I think that's a no brainer in terms of a link from the toll plaza (bearing in mind the access roads on and off the motorway already exist, albeit not probably to a standard for normal slip roads.

And I wonder whether there is no marketing of the IET service mentioned because GWR knows it's only an interim solution, and they could easily be swapped for lower, and less "Inter-City" style stock in the next couple of years. ie Wouldn't want to build up a demand for something only to then take it away from them.

 

[Topological]

The issue with park way type stations is that one exists, Bristol Parkway, and that has trains to London, Birmingham and Bristol Temple Meads.

The Welsh Government failed badly by not sorting out Newport. Whilst this is a rail forum, you have to be pretty stubborn not to see that the motorway through Newport is not fit for purpose. There are too many junctions within a short distance of each other so the traffic is always going to be snarled by those who are in the wrong lane, or who need to join and get out of a lane that turns off at the next (very close) junction.

That is not to say that the stations between Cardiff and Bristol Parkway should not be added, they should. It is just hard to see that those stations would solve the Newport M4 problem.

What is needed from Cardiff Bay is to bite the bullet on both investments. Sadly, though the Newport ship has probably sailed. Whether they are letting the additional stations ship sail too...

 

[CapitalStar378]

I've contacted the WG on socials a few times about Cardiff Parkway and get ignored. This has been called in for well over a year, no point having a government who are working against us, we've already got one of those in Westminster.