Career change to bus driver - Kendal

[alimckay1]

Hello,

I wonder if you knowledgeable folk would be able to give me some advice on a complete career change that I am thinking about making. I am currently working as a Retail Store Manager and I am honestly in need of a change in career after 12 years in the industry. during my time browsing through Indeed looking for a new job I came across Trainee Driver opportunities with Stagecoach both in Kendal and Morecambe (which are both relatively close to where I live) where they train you to complete your PSV license, I really enjoy driving and I also love the scenery of the area. I know not all the driving will be along the scenic 555 bus route from Kendal to Keswick but that must be a beautiful route to drive on a daily basis, if you get the chance (although maybe not a couple of weeks ago in the snow!). As a retail manager I am also used to customer service and dealing with awkward customers.

A couple of questions if you don't mind:-

How long does the training usually take to get your bus license? As you are on a lower wage obviously I would like to keep this time to a minimum. I know it'll probably depend on the person and how quick you can pick it up but roughly.

As a current retail manager progression into management does appeal to me after some time after earning my stripes as a driver. Is career progression something that's possible?

Are the Kendal and Morecambe depots good places to work? I have heard horror stories of bad managers and huge amounts of pressure put on drivers, but these seem to be from people in larger cities. Obviously all jobs come with stress, pressure and challenges, but I would imagine they would be slightly less in a smaller town/country area when compared to London!

And any other advice regarding the job and what to expect at the interview would be greatly appreciated also.

Thank you for your time

A

 

[Spsf3232]

Working in retail you will be well aware of what it's like to work with the public; that is the hardest part of the job! The other is shifts so expect 4am starts and 1am finishes with 12 hour days.

The training usually takes about 2 weeks to pass your test but remember you're not guaranteed to pass; that will depend on your driving experience.

Personally it's a better idea to take the test yourself and pay it on your own without relying on a company like Stagecoach who will tie you down to a contract for 2 years and if you leave you need to pay it back.

On the management side of things, with larger companies there is progression available to desk jobs but if it's this is something you would rather do. I would look at doing your CPC in passenger transport and going straight to management jobs.

 

[greenline712]

I don't know much about Stagecoach in the Lakes, but IMHO your best way in would be as a driver; expect to do a few years there and look towards moving into management after that.
The best managers are always those who have done the job, and not just for a couple of weeks. Having experienced the highs and lows as a driver will give you the necessary knowledge to move on.

Shifts: yes, there will be 4am starts and 1am finishes and long shifts, but not every day! Look at the local timetables; most buses won't start much before 7am or be out much after 9pm. Assume a 40 hour week on most weeks, so two 12 hour duties and two 8 hour duties (or five 8 hour duties) would be an average week. 5 days from 7 with a Rota pattern 7 on 2 off; 7 on 2 off; 6 on 4 off (depending on the amount of Sunday work at the garage).

If you like being your own boss once you leave the garage; doing your best without continual bothering from managers (unless you do things wrong all the time) and like driving / meeting people, then it's a great job.I did it for 45 years!

Good Luck!

 

[randyrippley]

Following on from Spsf3232's comment if you wanted to take the training and test yourself there's this company in Heysham offering training courses and also initial assessment sessions.
I've no personal contact with them, but they have been around for a number of years and seem to have a reliable reputation

Lancaster Training Services

PCV - Lancaster Training Services Ltd

PCV, PCV driver training, Minibus driver training, Category D, Category D1, Categort DE, Category D1E, Buses, Coach Driver Training

lantrain.co.uk

some selective quotes from their website

Whether you already hold a Class D1/D or you plan to go direct from Class B (car) to Class D1E or DE (with trailer) we always recommend that you first come for a driving assessment.
The assessment lasts about an hour and 20 minutes and costs £60 inc.VAT. The assessment will inform us which course, A (some experience) - B (Standard) - C (Novice) is most suited to your ability in order to get you up to test standar

.........................snip.............................

A - 17.5hrs over 3 days = £1120.00 + VAT £224.00 + Test fee 3A £40 + 3B £115.00 = £1499.00
B - 20.5hrs over 3 days = £1312.00 + VAT £262.40 + Test fee 3A £40 + 3B £115.00 = £1729.40
C - 22.5hrs over 4 days = £1440.00 + VAT £288.00 + Test fee 3A £40 + 3B £115.00 = £1883.00

Occasionally we advise you to come for a longer assessment/training session (4hrs) before you commit to a course. This is to make sure we select the correct course to match your experience and ability.​

A £300 deposit is required on booking.
Course start times and fees may be adjusted to match DVSA test time.

 

[Opel]

Working in retail you will be well aware of what it's like to work with the public; that is the hardest part of the job! The other is shifts so expect 4am starts and 1am finishes with 12 hour days.

The training usually takes about 2 weeks to pass your test but remember you're not guaranteed to pass; that will depend on your driving experience.

Personally it's a better idea to take the test yourself and pay it on your own without relying on a company like Stagecoach who will tie you down to a contract for 2 years and if you leave you need to pay it back.

On the management side of things, with larger companies there is progression available to desk jobs but if it's this is something you would rather do. I would look at doing your CPC in passenger transport and going straight to management jobs.

May I, as a long time yet inactive member of this forum (with over ten years bus/coach driving experience), break my messaging duck and offer some well intentioned advice.

To answer your question indirectly with a cryptic response...

Before making such a big change, ponder a while and ask yourself why it should be that there are always many openings for bus drivers.

In my humble opinion, that simple fact in itself speaks volumes...

Good luck!

 

[M803UYA]

Following on from Spsf3232's comment if you wanted to take the training and test yourself there's this company in Heysham offering training courses and also initial assessment sessions.
I've no personal contact with them, but they have been around for a number of years and seem to have a reliable reputation

Lancaster Training Services

PCV - Lancaster Training Services Ltd

PCV, PCV driver training, Minibus driver training, Category D, Category D1, Categort DE, Category D1E, Buses, Coach Driver Training

lantrain.co.uk

some selective quotes from their website

Deffo go down the private route with your training. Licence is yours and you're not tied to an operator for their 'training bond' which is massively overpriced compared to funding your own training. You'll be paying around £1000 more in the training bond than you will pay privately. Your training with an operator will also take some time as you'll not be the only one on the training vehicle so your 'drives' will be limited. I think such operator funded training is poor quality and very poor value for what it offers.

The UK Bus industry is badly managed and it suffers from terrible staff turnover. Most of the management and directors require brain transplants as either there isn't one, or it's completely unusable. There are *some* good ones out there, but I can count them on one hand, without using the thumb.

Worth remembering that Stagecoach are extremely efficient users of their vehicles (they schedule to the maximum and expect them out for more than 15hours per day) and drivers work the maximum available time permitted under UK domestic hours. You'll be in the vehicle longer than 5h30 and the 'stand' time at bus stops/bus stations is counted as break time. Some depots are better than others, though and some people fit in perfectly with them, others do not and they move on quickly.

I find smaller operators better to work for - you're a person, not a payroll number, you have feelings, needs and a life and so do the bosses who won't know what an office is. There are poor quality small firms as well.

The people I trained and passed with (Peter Smythe) are based in Sutton in Ashfield. If you live over 70 miles distant they'll put you up in a hotel gratis. They get a lot of candidates in for PCV who've been knocked back from bus operator training schools and those candidates do pass. You'd be done within the week. Pay for pass protection if you use these guys - PCV test is rather hard to pass first time! Then you've got four attempts at it.

I'd find a coach firm to work for where you are (KT's Coaches come over as very decent people!) and take that route. The office window will be different each day. Coaches are excellent fun, no fares to collect, get your paperwork and keys and seeya tonight. And you get paid to sit, read your own books and if it's long enough and on the radio, you can listen to Test Match Special. Well, I do.

I'll finish with a quote from Pete's sales pitch....

WHAT WE DO​

We offer FREE accommodation for LGV/HGV driver candidates who are over 70 miles away, so they don’t miss out on the best LGV/HGV training in the business. We offer the full package, from medical right through to the practical driving test at our very own Test Centre in Sutton in Ashfield.

WHO ARE WE ?​

We are a family run business and customer service is at the forefront of everything we do. We have an old fashioned way of working; customers not only get the best deal but quality instruction and service through-out.
Since 1984, PSTT has gone from strength to strength. We are proud to be the First Privately owned LGV Test Centre in the UK (2008) and our state of the art purpose built training facilities were accredited by DVSA upon opening in 2015. Since January 2017 we have been approved by NVDIR.

 

[Cesarcollie]

Hello,

I wonder if you knowledgeable folk would be able to give me some advice on a complete career change that I am thinking about making. I am currently working as a Retail Store Manager and I am honestly in need of a change in career after 12 years in the industry. during my time browsing through Indeed looking for a new job I came across Trainee Driver opportunities with Stagecoach both in Kendal and Morecambe (which are both relatively close to where I live) where they train you to complete your PSV license, I really enjoy driving and I also love the scenery of the area. I know not all the driving will be along the scenic 555 bus route from Kendal to Keswick but that must be a beautiful route to drive on a daily basis, if you get the chance (although maybe not a couple of weeks ago in the snow!). As a retail manager I am also used to customer service and dealing with awkward customers.

A couple of questions if you don't mind:-

How long does the training usually take to get your bus license? As you are on a lower wage obviously I would like to keep this time to a minimum. I know it'll probably depend on the person and how quick you can pick it up but roughly.

As a current retail manager progression into management does appeal to me after some time after earning my stripes as a driver. Is career progression something that's possible?

Are the Kendal and Morecambe depots good places to work? I have heard horror stories of bad managers and huge amounts of pressure put on drivers, but these seem to be from people in larger cities. Obviously all jobs come with stress, pressure and challenges, but I would imagine they would be slightly less in a smaller town/country area when compared to London!

And any other advice regarding the job and what to expect at the interview would be greatly appreciated also.

Thank you for your time

A

Don’t listen to all the doom-mongers on here. If you’re happy to be tied to a big operator for a couple of years, then let them train you. Their standards are generally high as they want you to look after their vehicles! Of course if you have the funds to train privately, that’s another option. And if you’re used to dealing with customers and don’t mind shifts, the job can be great. You’ll certainly see more than being in a shop all day. And there are promotions available for those who want to progress, though it may mean moving depots. There are lots of factors to weigh up - but as many people love it as dislike it. (And many of the ones who moan keep on doing it, so it can’t be that bad……). Why not go and have a chat with Stagecoach and other local companies and see whats on offer? Even if you decide against it, you won’t have lost anything.

 

[Statto]

I don't know much about Stagecoach in the Lakes, but IMHO your best way in would be as a driver; expect to do a few years there and look towards moving into management after that.
The best managers are always those who have done the job, and not just for a couple of weeks. Having experienced the highs and lows as a driver will give you the necessary knowledge to move on.

Shifts: yes, there will be 4am starts and 1am finishes and long shifts, but not every day! Look at the local timetables; most buses won't start much before 7am or be out much after 9pm. Assume a 40 hour week on most weeks, so two 12 hour duties and two 8 hour duties (or five 8 hour duties) would be an average week. 5 days from 7 with a Rota pattern 7 on 2 off; 7 on 2 off; 6 on 4 off (depending on the amount of Sunday work at the garage).

If you like being your own boss once you leave the garage; doing your best without continual bothering from managers (unless you do things wrong all the time) and like driving / meeting people, then it's a great job.I did it for 45 years!

Good Luck!

Depends what depot is operating the routes.

At Kendal the earliest bus is around 5.30am, which is the 555 Lancaster - Keswick. The full route takes 3 hours, but I think the shift pattern on the 555 is Kendal to Lancaster, Lancaster to Keswick then Keswick to Kendal or vice versa. Most Kendal local routes seem to start from 6am. It looks like not many services operate in the evenings; those that do operate in the evening seem to finish around 10pm.

Morecambe, on the other hand, has much longer operating hours, mostly due to Lancaster University. The first buses look like they're around 5am and the last bus back around 1am. Watch out for all night services too, mostly to Lancaster University. I think they've been withdrawn, but they could easily return.

 

[greenline712]

And always remember that starting late gives you the morning to shop / see the doctor / meet friends. Working on weekends gives you weekdays off to do stuff as well. And the Friday - Monday weekend every 4-6 weeks means you can go away for short breaks.
Shift work isn't all bad !!!

 

[Statto]

Another thing you have to watch out for is shift patterns, you might be rostered to finish late one week, then have couple of days off, & rostered to start early & so on.

I know someone who got a job driving buses some 15 years ago, (was First Crosville, from Rock Ferry Depot) his shift pattern was 4 days on & 2 days off, he ended up leaving when the minimum term on his contract was up, because he hated working weekends, that still might be the shift pattern now.

 

[alimckay1]

Thank you everyone for your replies.

With regards to weekend working, I can’t remember the last weekend that I had off anyway! Working in retail it is our busiest period so we are expected to work. Also looking at the bus timetables in Kendal it looks like the local town buses start at around 7am and then don’t really go past 7pm, the 555 does seem to start from about 5.30 and finishes around 10/11 depending on the day, so looks like that the earliest/latest I’d be working. This is the winter timetable so may change over summer when tourist season kicks off.

I was going to ask why the Morecambe depot seems to have a higher pay rate than Kendal, but I assume it’s to do with the longer running hours and some sort of unsocial hours type pay?

I did look at doing the license myself but I just don’t have the cash to pay for it upfront at the moment.

Thank you all for your help.

A

 

[Titfield]

Another thing you have to watch out for is shift patterns, you might be rostered to finish late one week, then have couple of days off, & rostered to start early & so on.

I know someone who got a job driving buses some 15 years ago, (was First Crosville, from Rock Ferry Depot) his shift pattern was 4 days on & 2 days off, he ended up leaving when the minimum term on his contract was up, because he hated working weekends, that still might be the shift pattern now.

Back a decade ago I used to roster drivers the other way around ie early finish then two days off then late start.

When we had a major timetable change (and thus duty and roster change) I would put up a couple of variations to get driver feedback prior to making a choice. I would even say to some drivers well if you have a better idea then give it to me and Ill give it serious consideration. Very often they would come up with something that looked good but then on close examination ended up delivering a real sod of a couple of shifts. Not easy to please all the people all of the time.

 

[Roger1973]

Not easy to please all the people all of the time.

and not easy to please some of the people any of the time...


Going back to the original question -

In terms of shift patterns / rotas, there isn't a simple answer, as almost every operator, and in many cases every depot within that operator, will have its own schedules agreement and 'unwritten rules'

I have no personal knowledge at all of that bit of Stagecoach-land, but some places have rotas where you generally do a 4 day week (4 x 10 hour days) rather than 5 x 8 hour days, some may have a mix of both (either within the same rota, or different rotas at the same depot.) All but the smallest depots usually have a number of rotas (maybe based on particular groups of routes) rather than one 'all in' rota, but it varies. Choice of what rota you go on is usually heavily based on seniority / length of service, and traditionally drivers started out as 'spare' until there was a vacancy on a rota that there wasn't already a waiting list to go on. Being 'spare' means not being able to predict finish times or rest days too far in advance, as well as having to know all the routes and vehicle types early on. This isn't always the case now, some places there's a 'new starter' rota on a relatively simple route to let newcomers get the hang of the job a bit more.

Any driver duty is a combination of 'time on duty' (time worked and paid) and 'spreadover' (sign on to sign off) - arrangements vary for how many unpaid chunks there can be, and how long they can be - a traditional 'spreadover duty' meant working morning and evening peaks with maybe 3 or 4 hours off between the two, but it isn't always as simple as that now, and if you live any distance from your depot, it can be just not quite enough time for it to be worth going home mid day.

At most places, there's usually opportunities to work rest days (up to the maximum that the law allows, which on local bus is a legal requirement to have 1 day off in ever 2 weeks) - at some places there can be pressure to work rest days, but it varies.

In terms of promotion, the first level supervisory grades are usually recruited from among drivers and rarely even advertised externally. Many places have 'relief' supervisors who are drivers most of the time and step up to a supervisor role to cover holidays and the like, and they are usually best placed to get a permanent supervisor role when one becomes available. There can be a lot of competition for these roles, and financially, you can end up being not much better off than drivers as a higher pay rate is balanced by loss of overtime opportunities.

The 'management' level can be more tricky. While there are a few senior managers out there who started as bus drivers, the big groups tend to have graduate trainee manager schemes (I suspect many big retailers are similar) and the people who get through this usually get first shot at the management jobs. Just how much of a brick wall there is between supervisory and management grades will vary.

Again within the big groups, promotion can be more swift if you're willing to move round the country for it - Stagecoach for example have operations from the north of Scotland to the Devon and East Kent. I have been given the impression they will lean on people to move, but not sure how true this is, or what happens if you don't want to. At management level there is the risk of occasional re-structuring of area / regional management.

I was going to ask why the Morecambe depot seems to have a higher pay rate than Kendal, but I assume it’s to do with the longer running hours and some sort of unsocial hours type pay?

Broadly speaking, most operators moved away from national agreement / company wide agreement when deregulation / privatisation happened in the late 80s, and each depot will have its own pay rate and terms + conditions based on 'local market factors' - in some places it's more complicated as you get one operator with a relatively low basic rate but enhanced rates for evenings, Sundays and so on (which were traditional) and another with a higher basic rate but no enhancements. Although a lot of the enhancements and complicated conditions are a thing of the past.

 

[philthetube]

a

Any driver duty is a combination of 'time on duty' (time worked and paid) and 'spreadover' (sign on to sign off) - arrangements vary for how many unpaid chunks there can be, and how long they can be - a traditional 'spreadover duty' meant working morning and evening peaks with maybe 3 or 4 hours off between the two, but it isn't always as simple as that now, and if you live any distance from your depot, it can be just not quite enough time for it to be worth going home mid day.

At many depots there are card games running in the middle of spreadovers.

At most places, there's usually opportunities to work rest days (up to the maximum that the law allows, which on local bus is a legal requirement to have 1 day off in ever 2 weeks) - at some places there can be pressure to work rest days, but it varies.

The working time directive also applies, no more than an average working week of 47 hours, holidays also count towards the hours.

You cannot opt out of this as a transport driver.

 

[Statto]

Thank you everyone for your replies.

With regards to weekend working, I can’t remember the last weekend that I had off anyway! Working in retail it is our busiest period so we are expected to work. Also looking at the bus timetables in Kendal it looks like the local town buses start at around 7am and then don’t really go past 7pm, the 555 does seem to start from about 5.30 and finishes around 10/11 depending on the day, so looks like that the earliest/latest I’d be working. This is the winter timetable so may change over summer when tourist season kicks off.

I was going to ask why the Morecambe depot seems to have a higher pay rate than Kendal, but I assume it’s to do with the longer running hours and some sort of unsocial hours type pay?

I did look at doing the license myself but I just don’t have the cash to pay for it upfront at the moment.

Thank you all for your help.

A

I think the pay disparity could well be Morecambe has more trunk routes, including routes to & from Lancaster University, with longer operating hours, Kendal has only local routes & the 555, so Morecambe could be the more profitable depot than Kendal because of this.

 

[Lewisham2221]

The working time directive also applies, no more than an average working week of 47 hours, holidays also count towards the hours.

48 hours

You cannot opt out of this as a transport driver.

Yes you can. Or more specifically, you can if you are covered by domestic driving hours rules (which the vast majority of bus drivers are), rather than EU rules (which would more often apply to coach drivers).

Drivers’ hours and tachographs: buses and coaches - Annex 2: Working time rules - Guidance - GOV.UK

The working time rules that apply to you depend on whether you drive a vehicle in scope of the EU or GB domestic drivers’ hours rules.

www.gov.uk

 

[Cesarcollie]

48 hours


Yes you can. Or more specifically, you can if you are covered by domestic driving hours rules (which the vast majority of bus drivers are), rather than EU rules (which would more often apply to coach drivers).

Drivers’ hours and tachographs: buses and coaches - Annex 2: Working time rules - Guidance - GOV.UK

The working time rules that apply to you depend on whether you drive a vehicle in scope of the EU or GB domestic drivers’ hours rules.

www.gov.uk

correct. Drivers on domestic rules can opt out of 48 hour week (but not all elements of Working Time Directiv)

 

[randyrippley]

I think the pay disparity could well be Morecambe has more trunk routes, including routes to & from Lancaster University, with longer operating hours, Kendal has only local routes & the 555, so Morecambe could be the more profitable depot than Kendal because of this.

It may be simply because Morecambe was privatised as part of the initial Ribble management buyout, while Kendal was privatised by the direct sale of CMS* to Stagecoach.
Later Morecambe was transferred by Stagecoach to Cumbria, allegedly because it was supposedly (according to rumour) the only profitable part of Ribble (at the time) and they wanted to sandbox it following the strikes which led to the disposal of the East Lancs operations. Morecambe drivers didn't strike, unlike most of the rest of Ribble. Also weren't some Morecambe drivers TUPEd* from both LCT* and Heysham Travel (the shortlived Merseybus operation in Morecambe) at the various takeovers?
It wouldn't surprise me if the differing histories resulted in different contracts which were simply too much trouble to harmonise.

==edit==
to clarify
CMS - Cumbria Motor Services
LCT - Lancaster City Transport
TUPE - TUPE stands for Transfer of Undertakings Protection of Employment rights

 

[Man of Kent]

It may be simply because Morecambe was privatised as part of the initial Ribble management buyout, while Kendal was privatised by the direct sale of CMS* to Stagecoach.

It was the Carlisle and Penrith depots of Ribble that were transferred to Cumberland Motor Services. Kendal remained part of Ribble.

 

[randyrippley]

It was the Carlisle and Penrith depots of Ribble that were transferred to Cumberland Motor Services. Kendal remained part of Ribble.

OK I stand corrected

 

[alimckay1]

Thank you all very much for your help and advice. I have taken the plunge and applied, I have an interview first thing in the new year.

Do you have any advice on what can I expect from the interview?

Thank you again.

A

 

[jpaul81]

Thank you all very much for your help and advice. I have taken the plunge and applied, I have an interview first thing in the new year.

Do you have any advice on what can I expect from the interview?

Thank you again.

A

It depends on the operator, but from what i can remember from my interview at Arriva you can expect a...

• basic numeracy/literacy/highway code test
• medical
• interview
• driving assessment (usually in a van or minibus)

The interview process is pretty easy but the main thing is watch your speed on the driving assessment... other than that just the usual mirror checks, keeping your distance and braking in good time... and you should be fine.

If you're successful they'll send your license off for provisional entitlement.
It normally takes about 2 weeks to get it back get it back. When you do, contact them to arrange a start date for training.

Training took me about 3-4 weeks to obtain my license and CPC, plus another 3-4 weeks with a mentor when when i started at the depo.
It depends on the individual though as some candidates learn quicker than others.

Trainee drivers are usually on the lower rate for the first year or so and you pay back the training bond over 2 years, although you do get it back as a bonus once on full rate.

 

[507021]

As someone who decided on a similar career change a decade ago, I'd say if you don't mind the unsociable hours and frequent awkward customers, then go for it. As long as you have a PSV licence and an up to date CPC, then you've got a job for life.

 

[Statto]

Depends why type of routes you want to drive too, & watch out for driver change over locations as well.

Morecambe has routes that take well over an hour. Morecambe depot is on an industrial estate half way between Morecambe Town Centre & Lancaster City Centre, so it will involve a lot of dead running, normally 10 to 15 minutes depending on traffic.

Morecambe can be awkward for driver change over locations too. Some are done at Lancaster bus station, 6, 6A is the only one that goes near the depot, and for the rest you'll get provided with a vehicle to make the trip to the change over location

Kendal has town routes which take less than 30 minutes, a couple of rural routes that aren't too long. The 555 which takes 3 hours (during the summer the 555 has an extra hourly service that uses the M6 between Lancaster & Kendal), & the open topper.

Kendal depot is literally around the corner from Kendal bus station, so first & last journeys will be at Kendal bus station,. You're starting minutes before the first service, & back at the depot within 5 minutes, so driver changes are either Kendal bus station or at the depot.

Here are some Stagecoach maps that you might find useful:

Kendal

https://tiscon-maps-stagecoachbus.s3.amazonaws.com/ZoneMaps/Cumbria/0721%20Kendal%20Map%20A4.pdf

Lakes

https://tiscon-maps-stagecoachbus.s3.amazonaws.com/Timetables/Cumbria/Lakes%20Connection/Winter%202023/CNL%201023%20Lakes%20Map.pdf

Lancaster & Morecambe

https://tiscon-maps-stagecoachbus.s3.amazonaws.com/RouteMaps/Cumbria/0923%20Lancaster%20Map.pdf

 

[Roger1973]

other than that just the usual mirror checks

Possibly stating the obvious, but it's worth getting in to the habit of using your wing / door mirrors if you're driving a car - and (unless they have changed the guidance since I did my PCV training some years back) they expect you to check both each time.

Many car drivers rely on the mirror in the top / middle of the windscreen and don't look at the outside mirrors often enough. While most buses do have a mirror there, it's only any use for seeing what's happening inside the lower deck, so you don't shut the doors and start moving while there's still people wanting to get off / getting sat down.

If a driving assessment is done in a van / minibus, it's likely to be the same.

Depends why type of routes you want to drive too, & watch out for driver change over locations as well.

Morecambe has routes that take well over an hour. Morecambe depot is on an industrial estate half way between Morecambe Town Centre & Lancaster City Centre, so it will involve a lot of dead running, normally 10 to 15 minutes depending on traffic.

One thing that some operators are trying to sneak in to terms and conditions is that you sign on at one place, and off at another if (for example) you start from depot in the morning then hand over a bus at (for example) a town centre bus station, or vice versa on a later starting duty.

Traditionally, you would get paid for the travel time between depot and bus station, some operators are trying to change it to unpaid time. It can be no bad thing if you travel to / from depot either by public bus routes or a staff bus, but if you'veno choice but to drive and park there, it can add an unpaid chunk to your working day.

I've no idea if that might be the case here.

Thank you all very much for your help and advice. I have taken the plunge and applied, I have an interview first thing in the new year.

Hope it goes well and you get to the point where you have a choice to make.

 

[philthetube]

48 hours


Yes you can. Or more specifically, you can if you are covered by domestic driving hours rules (which the vast majority of bus drivers are), rather than EU rules (which would more often apply to coach drivers).

Drivers’ hours and tachographs: buses and coaches - Annex 2: Working time rules - Guidance - GOV.UK

The working time rules that apply to you depend on whether you drive a vehicle in scope of the EU or GB domestic drivers’ hours rules.

www.gov.uk

Apologies for mistake, this was not mentioned on my cpc.

something else which makes covering rail replacement work difficult.

Imagine the record keeping for a driver doing one job on EU rules.

 

[RJ]

Apologies for mistake, this was not mentioned on my cpc.

something else which makes covering rail replacement work difficult.

Imagine the record keeping for a driver doing one job on EU rules.

There’s nothing to stop an operator mandating the use of the tachograph when on domestic rules jobs. It makes it easier to monitor drivers hours.

 

[philthetube]

No but if a driver worked 1 duty on eu rules then all the hours for the previous 17 weeks would have to be checked before the job could be allocated, quite a big job.

 

[RJ]

No but if a driver worked 1 duty on eu rules then all the hours for the previous 17 weeks would have to be checked before the job could be allocated, quite a big job.

There’s software that can deal with that and it’s a lot easier if all the hours are recorded digitally in one place.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Apologies for mistake, this was not mentioned on my cpc.

something else which makes covering rail replacement work difficult.

Imagine the record keeping for a driver doing one job on EU rules.

I've done rail replacement many times under domestic rules, South Wales valley lines though so short distance.

correct. Drivers on domestic rules can opt out of 48 hour week (but not all elements of Working Time Directive)

I've worked at three companies in the last 14 years, and one of the first things I was given to sign was the opt out for the working time directive. Obviously anyone can say no, but it's expected of you to do so.