Cark Conundrum?

[DaventryRabbit]

Cark Station on the Cumbrian Coast Line is referred to as just that on the Station Running in Boards. Yet the Area is seemingly 'Cark & Cartmel'.
Also the PIS on Northern Trains (well, the 156's at least) refer to it as 'Cark-in-Cartmel'...
Definitive Ruling anyone?

 

[swt_passenger]

Cark Station on the Cumbrian Coast Line is referred to as just that on the Station Running in Boards. Yet the Area is seemingly 'Cark & Cartmel'.
Also the PIS on Northern Trains (well, the 156's at least) refer to it as 'Cark-in-Cartmel'...
Definitive Ruling anyone?

Can’t give a ruling, but there are dozens of previous suggested answers:

Search results for query: Cark

 

[Ashley Hill]

Here is some signage from over the years. They suggest that it has always been the full name.

C. Wiki and Foursquare.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Doesn't the station signboard currently just say 'Cark', as does the Summer 2022 timetable for Manchester -> Lancaster -> Barrow -> Carlisle?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The problem with "and Cartmel" is that Grange has (occasional) buses and possibly a taxi to Cartmel, whereas if you go to Cark you walk. Granted it isn't up a big hill unlike from Grange, but it is also too far to walk for most.

The place does seem to sometimes be called "Cark IN Cartmel" though. Not on the OS map, but on the signs.

"Cark & Flookburgh" would probably be a better name. It's in the middle (arguably actually in the latter). But if they can't bring themselves to rename Birmingham International which is forever confusing people, who's going to fund renaming a tiny "local halt for local people"?

 

[alistairlees]

It is "Cark & Cartmel" or should be, as that's the data in the data sources that are used by CIS, PIS, TVMs, websites / journey planners etc. Not these are always up to date...

[data from RSP stations feed]

1964

Cark & Cartmel

CARK

CAK

True

Cark & Cartmel

[data from RSP fare locations feed]

1964

CARK + CARTMEL

1

Cark & Cartmel

True

True

 

[Ashley Hill]

Doesn't the station signboard currently just say 'Cark', as does the Summer 2022 timetable for Manchester -> Lancaster -> Barrow -> Carlisle?

So I see,so we’re back to square one
Wiki suggests it was opened as Cark in Cartmel. Perhaps rename it Flookburgh to remove all doubt

 

[MisterSheeps]

On Friday, the announcer said 'Cark and Cartmel', the train (classs 195) said the same (using '&'), the local sounding female guard said 'Cark in Cartmel', and the station said 'Cark'. I favour the guard; 'Cartmel' is also used as the name of the peninsula (in the same way as 'Furness' for the Barrow / Ulverston / Askam area). I doubt if many people go to Cartmel village by train, Holker Hall would be a better tourist destination.

 

[philjo]

I doubt if many people go to Cartmel village by train, Holker Hall would be a better tourist destination.

Large numbers use the train to Cark station for racing at Cartmel on race days. There is a shuttle bus from Cark station to the racecourse on those days.
I was going to Holker Hall on a Saturday race day in 2019 and struggled to board the train at Carnforth.
Holker Hall is easily walkable from Cark station.

 

[Pinus contorta]

The signalbox had Cark on the side of it until it was demolished around twenty years ago. I've walked between the two places quite a few times in the past but I wouldn't recommend it unless you are savvy about walking on country roads.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The signalbox had Cark on the side of it until it was demolished around twenty years ago. I've walked between the two places quite a few times in the past but I wouldn't recommend it unless you are savvy about walking on country roads.

There is an off road track for most of the distance, though hiking shoes/boots would be prudent. Not for race day dress!

 

[ScottGallagher]

The line has a few anomalies like this, in literature and announcements Barrow is always referred to as Barrow In Furness but as long as I can remember the signage at Barrow has never said this, however just up the line Kirkby In Furness does!

 

[randyrippley]

The name "Cartmel" applies to both Cartmel village and the Cartmel peninsula.
Cartmel village does not have a station.
Cark village is in the Cartmel peninsula, and is properly known as Cark-in-Cartmel.
Naming this way is common in North Lancs and Westmorland, hence names ending
in-Cartmel
in-Furness
in-Lonsdale
in-Kendal
by-Bowland
in-Craven

"Cark-in-Cartmel" is the full village name and should be the station name

There is an off road track for most of the distance, though hiking shoes/boots would be prudent. Not for race day dress!

A coffin route if I remember correctly

 

[Pinus contorta]

A coffin route if I remember correctly

Oh its a corpse road then is it? I remember walking along there at dusk once, and being put off walking through the woods because it was very wet under foot. Last time I visited there was that Segeway available, so perhaps they have improved the tracks for that.

 

[SargeNpton]

The 1956 edition of the British Transport Commission's "Handbook of Stations" shows the station name as Cark & Cartmel.

 

[Birkonian]

On Friday, the announcer said 'Cark and Cartmel', the train (classs 195) said the same (using '&'), the local sounding female guard said 'Cark in Cartmel', and the station said 'Cark'. I favour the guard; 'Cartmel' is also used as the name of the peninsula (in the same way as 'Furness' for the Barrow / Ulverston / Askam area). I doubt if many people go to Cartmel village by train, Holker Hall would be a better tourist destination.

I often walk to from Cark station when staying in Cartmel. It is about 40 mins walk along the track past the farm and through the (now removed) woods. Granted always in summer so very pleasant.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I often walk to from Cark station when staying in Cartmel. It is about 40 mins walk along the track past the farm and through the (now removed) woods. Granted always in summer so very pleasant.

Why's the woods gone? Dieback?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The 1956 edition of the British Transport Commission's "Handbook of Stations" shows the station name as Cark & Cartmel.

To be fair, quite a few stations around the network have been officially renamed since then.

 

[Birkonian]

Why's the woods gone? Dieback?

They have been chopped down. I think that there is a plan to remove the coniferous trees in the area. I got a shock in May when I walked that way. It was a like a scene of devastation from Ypres in WW1.

 

[InkyScrolls]

They have been chopped down. I think that there is a plan to remove the coniferous trees in the area. I got a shock in May when I walked that way. It was a like a scene of devastation from Ypres in WW1.

What a shame! Any particular reason?

 

[Birkonian]

Something to do with returning it to its natural state. They've done similar nearby over the last 10 years but this one with a public footpath through it is very stark.

 

[InkyScrolls]

Define 'natural state' - do moors count as 'natural' or not, I wonder?

 

[Birkonian]

Define 'natural state' - do moors count as 'natural' or not, I wonder?

I've not researched the whole rationale but I've read that conifers are considered to be 'unnatural' in the area. Removal allows more light to reach low levels and encourages other species to flourish providing a better habitat for wildlife

 

[SargeNpton]

It would seem that even those who run the station can't kame up their mind...

 

[Tetchytyke]

"Cark-in-Cartmel" is the full village name and should be the station name

Correct, although it also serves Cartmel, so perhaps it should be Cark-in-Cartmel and Cartmel.

Maybe stick with Flookburgh

 

[InOban]

There's a milestone outside Cartmel showing the distance to Morecambe across the sands. Pre railway that would have been the normal route south.

 

[randyrippley]

I've not researched the whole rationale but I've read that conifers are considered to be 'unnatural' in the area. Removal allows more light to reach low levels and encourages other species to flourish providing a better habitat for wildlife

they're all foreign trees: hemlock, and mainly other American conifers which aren't much good for species diversity.
However the clear felling is depriving the likes of buzzards, goshawks and crossbills of nesting sites, and causing problems for the deer.

 

[Pinus contorta]

they're all foreign trees: hemlock, and mainly other American conifers which aren't much good for species diversity.
However the clear felling is depriving the likes of buzzards, goshawks and crossbills of nesting sites, and causing problems for the deer.

Could be PAWS - Plantation on Ancient Woodland site. These are often, although not exclusively, found in National Parks. Woodlands and Forests that at some point in the 20th Century would have been native woodlands going back several centuries, but that were systematically ripped out and planted up with the species mentioned above.

The intention is to restore these PAWS sites back to native woodland.

Sorry going a bit off thread...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Correct, although it also serves Cartmel, so perhaps it should be Cark-in-Cartmel and Cartmel.

Maybe stick with Flookburgh

I would call it "Cark and Flookburgh", it is literally between the two.

 

[SouthernR]

But, more importantly, is the Engine Inn still open and serving very hot curries?