Caught fraudulently claiming refunds for journeys that were made

[RAS1800]

Hi.

I regularly split my tickets on trains and, I refund my tickets if one leg isn’t scanned.

Yesterday before going through the barrier, I was pulled and someone else scanned my ticket. I had bought a ticket purely to get through the barrier and he could see that my start destination wasn’t used at the barrier of what my ticket said.

When he questioned this, I scanned my ticket through the gate and purely walked away, however he chased me and said I’d be prosecuted. Took no details apart from scanning my ticket. I simply walked away after.

Is this likely to be followed up?

 

[12LDA28C]

This needs to be moved to Fares Advice, or potentially Disputes and Prosecutions depending on developments.

 

[cf111]

I don't know if this interaction is going to lead to any further action, but train operating companies do have fraud teams who will monitor their systems for suspicious patterns. A large volume of refunds may well trigger this.

 

[jon0844]

Hi.

I regularly split my tickets on trains and, I refund my tickets if one leg isn’t scanned.

Yesterday before going through the barrier, I was pulled and someone else scanned my ticket. I had bought a ticket purely to get through the barrier and he could see that my start destination wasn’t used at the barrier of what my ticket said.

When he questioned this, I scanned my ticket through the gate and purely walked away, however he chased me and said I’d be prosecuted. Took no details apart from scanning my ticket. I simply walked away after.

Is this likely to be followed up?

The code likely contains the necessary details to identify you, the ticket seller, and quite possibly all other transactions made on that account. It's quite likely you'll be contacted, especially the likes of Trainline work very closely with the rail operators now - as they don't much like customers refunding tickets fraudulently.

 

[RAS1800]

I don't know if this interaction is going to lead to any further action, but train operating companies do have fraud teams who will monitor their systems for suspicious patterns. A large volume of refunds may well trigger this.

Yes. This is something I won’t be doing anymore for sure. Do you think it was probably more of a scare tactic on this occasion?

 

[cf111]

Yes. This is something I won’t be doing anymore for sure. Do you think it was probably more of a scare tactic on this occasion?

I genuinely have no idea, but with the barcodes tickets it is very easy to identify every transaction made (sometimes over a number of websites if they use the same platform) by the ticket holder.

 

[RAS1800]

I genuinely have no idea, but with the barcodes tickets it is very easy to identify every transaction made (sometimes over a number of websites if they use the same platform) by the ticket holder.

Thank you. Fingers crossed

 

[Brissle Girl]

If they scanned your ticket, then given you walked away, and what he said in response, I’d suggest the odds are that they will look to contact you. I would imagine that a cursory glance at your online account will reinforce their view to prosecute you, or at the very least get you to pay back all the fares due.

And if you regularly use the station you were stopped at then I would also imagine that they will be looking out for you again too.

 

[RAS1800]

If they scanned your ticket, then given you walked away, and what he said in response, I’d suggest the odds are that they will look to contact you. I would imagine that a cursory glance at your online account will reinforce their view to prosecute you, or at the very least get you to pay back all the fares due.

And if you regularly use the station you were stopped at then I would also imagine that they will be looking out for you again too.

I don’t use this station very often at all. Nor is there actually many refunds on there as normally they’re all scanned.

 

[Brissle Girl]

Yesterday before going through the barrier, I was pulled and someone else scanned my ticket.

Having reread the first post, this comment makes me wonder whether they were looking out for you, as it seems to suggest that they singled you out for an inspection?

 

[RAS1800]

Having reread the first post, this comment makes me wonder whether they were looking out for you, as it seems to suggest that they singled you out for an inspection?

Maybe, but I rarely use that station. He seemed to just random spot checking. I bought the ticket he scanned days in advance, im just they will let this one slide. I left the situation pretty swiftly and wasn’t once asked for details by the inspector.

 

[Titfield]

Only the OP (and the TOCs if they look) know the number of tickets purchased and number of refunds applied for and granted. Reading through the OPs comments I just get the sense that the OP's record is going to be scrutinised and may trigger an investigation letter.

 

[RAS1800]

Only the OP (and the TOCs if they look) know the number of tickets purchased and number of refunds applied for and granted. Reading through the OPs comments I just get the sense that the OP's record is going to be scrutinised and may trigger an investigation letter.

I can’t find anything on this forum that would suggest they have got in touch with people who didn’t give any details , so it seems opposed that would be quite rare?

 

[Brissle Girl]

I can’t find anything on this forum that would suggest they have got in touch with people who didn’t give any details , so it seems opposed that would be quite rare?

They sometimes get in touch with people who haven’t even been stopped, following an investigation of their account for suspicious activity.

 

[RAS1800]

They sometimes get in touch with people who haven’t even been stopped, following an investigation of their account for suspicious activity.

Potentially. Guess it’ll be best to just stop doing this going forward and keeping my head down for a while. And hope they don’t go to the effort of investigating right now.

 

[jon0844]

I am sure your details were passed on to the fraud team, so sit back and wait. You know how many refunds you asked for and how long you've doing it for.

I also suggest you don't just keep your head down for a while but stop doing it full stop. Whether you like it or not, you're known now as they scanned your ticket.

 

[scrapy]

If you used a guest account (or a real account with fake details) and apple pay, then you may not be identifiable.

Otherwise they will be able to trace you through the details given to the ticket seller (even if they've been subsequently deleted), or through the payment method you used as banks/ payment providers do release details where criminal activity is suspected. I believe but may be wrong that applepay has some sort of encryption that prevents this. Although there may be other ways of tracing you just from your email address.

 

[RAS1800]

If you used a guest account (or a real account with fake details) and apple pay, then you may not be identifiable.

Otherwise they will be able to trace you through the details given to the ticket seller (even if they've been subsequently deleted), or through the payment method you used as banks/ payment providers do release details where criminal activity is suspected. I believe but may be wrong that applepay has some sort of encryption that prevents this. Although there may be other ways of tracing you just from your email address.

The ticket was purchased through Apple Pay, on a card which is brand new (So won’t have any previous trainline transactions on it apart from this one in question)

 

[scrapy]

The ticket was purchased through Apple Pay, on a card which is brand new (So won’t have any previous trainline transactions on it apart from this one in question)

If the previous transactions for the refunded were also on apple pay then it's possible they won't be able to trace you unless Trainline have your details.

 

[RAS1800]

If the previous transactions for the refunded were also on apple pay then it's possible they won't be able to trace you unless Trainline have your details.

Yeah all through Apple Pay.

The only details on my trainline account is my email address.

I certainly won’t be doing this ever again.

 

[skyhigh]

From the Apple Pay privacy policy -

After you authorize the payment, other information requested by the merchant, such as a device-specific account number, your shipping address, or email address, is also provided.

So it's possible that they will have your name, email address and maybe postal address even if you used a guest account.

 

[RAS1800]

From the Apple Pay privacy policy -


So it's possible that they will have your name, email address and maybe postal address even if you used a guest account.

Potentially. Is there many people on here who have had this happen? I can’t seem to see any cases where someone has been contacted without giving the inspector physical details.

 

[swt_passenger]

Potentially. Is there many people on here who have had this happen? I can’t seem to see any cases where someone has been contacted without giving the inspector physical details.

There definitely have been cases where initial contact has been made to an email address, rather than a postal address. IIRC there’s even one or two threads that have been started by people asking if an email about fraud received from a TOC is a scam…

 

[jon0844]

It sounds like they can get your details a number of ways, not least from Apple (who despite going on about privacy have history for giving out customer information for fraud/crime prevention) so I guess it's more a case of whether they're going to bother to request your details and write to you, or just make a note of who you are and look out for you in the future.

Remember, Trainline shares information with all train operators, so you want to remain squeaky clean with them all. Plus, as you'll see from threads on here, Trainline is also proactive enough to investigate when someone has made suspicious looking refunds - because I assume they're not happy losing money by having to process refunds and losing their agency fee etc.

 

[RAS1800]

Hi -

What is the situation with E-tickets being scanned?

If an RPI scans the ticket, will they then have access to identify the ticket holder? Or would that take an awful lot of work?

I know that trainline doesn’t hold much information, apart from your email address.

 

[Adam Williams]

I'm not sure where these bizarre misconceptions about Apple Pay have come from, but merchants can trivially request that Apple Pay passes over contact information: https://developer.apple.com/documen...trequest/2216120-requiredbillingcontactfields and https://developer.apple.com/documen...request/2216121-requiredshippingcontactfields

As a retailer, there is basically no reason not to request at least some of this, because otherwise you'll need to solicit it from the customer by having them manually type it in. Sometimes the quality of what's provided is poor, but that's down to what the end-customer types in to their iPhone.

I think based on my experience, it's fair to assume that this will all be stored against the transaction by the retailer where it's made available by Apple.

 

[kacper]

When you’re paying with Apple Pay there are tabs for what they request. E.g Billing address, email, phone number

If those aren’t given then you can’t make the transaction, and if they aren’t asked for at the time of purchase then they can not be request after. I don’t know what trainline specifies for their transactions

 

[RAS1800]

When you’re paying with Apple Pay there are tabs for what they request. E.g Billing address, email, phone number

If those aren’t given then you can’t make the transaction, and if they aren’t asked for at the time of purchase then they can not be request after. I don’t know what trainline specifies for their transactions

All that is asked for his card number and expiry date.

 

[Adam Williams]

All that is asked for his card number and expiry date.

When I try and pay for a ticket on Trainline logged out, there's a Contact that I need to select underneath the card that's going to be used to pay for the tickets. The entry selected has my iCloud email address. I don't know if it's only sharing the email address, but it's more than just card number.

 

[RAS1800]

When I try and pay for a ticket on Trainline logged out, there's a Contact that I need to select underneath the card that's going to be used to pay for the tickets. The entry selected has my iCloud email address. I don't know if it's only sharing the email address, but it's more than just card number.

All I see is email address linked to trainline , and card details and expiry date.