Caught short faring

[jaynedad]

Hi,
I recently got caught short faring on Chiltern railways. I bought a second ticket on the train and the Inspector caught me and said he can see that I bought this ticket just recently and thus asked for my details. i gave it to him and also my address. He informed me that I will get a letter between 6 to 8 weeks. I was expecting him to charge me the £100 fine on the spot but he didn’t so I assumed the fine is sent through a letter. However after some research it seems like they might send a prosecution letter that could potentially lead to court and a criminal charge. This is my first time being caught (I’ve done this 4 times in total). I pay the full amount most of them time, these are the few times I was a bit skint (I know it’s not an excuse) so what are the chances they will investigate and take court action? Obviously, as a 21 year old student, that prospect is scary as no company is willing to employ someone with a criminal record even if it is for dodging a train fare.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 20:35 ==

Another potential issue. I have purchased child ticket twice with my account before for my younger brother who is 15 years old. The only proof I have that those tickets are not for me (in case they start looking into my purchasing history) is that I’ve sent him those tickets on WhatsApp right after I purchased them so he can use them for the journey but I’m not sure if they would accept that as evidence.

 

[Titfield]

A penalty fare can not be issued afterwards.

The TOC ( train operating company) will send you a letter asking for your account of what happened.When it arrives - it can be weeks or even months - post the letter here with your personal details and reference numbers obscured. Forum members will then advise how to respond. In the meantime if you read some of the posts by @Hadders you will see the sort of response to give.

Do not worry, minor ticketing infractions like this can normally be settled out of court though at a cost - the fares avoided plus an admin fee of C£150 -£200. No account is taken for the fares already paid.

 

[jaynedad]

A penalty fare can not be issued afterwards.

The TOC ( train operating company) will send you a letter asking for your account of what happened.When it arrives - it can be weeks or even months - post the letter here with your personal details and reference numbers obscured. Forum members will then advise how to respond. In the meantime if you read some of the posts by @Hadders you will see the sort of response to give.

Do not worry, minor ticketing infractions like this can normally be settled out of court though at a cost - the fares avoided plus an admin fee of C£150 -£200. No account is taken for the fares already paid.

Thanks for the reply.

It will definitely be a notice/intent to prosecute letter then. My only problem is that the address the ticket inspector collected from me (he took a pic of my driving licence) is an old address as I had recently moved house. I didn’t remember to tell him that at the time so I am scared that the letter will go to my old address and I won’t be able to open it on time and the train company might proceed with court action.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

It will almost certainly be a letter sent to the address you gave. Were you given any paperwork by the inspector with a case reference number? If so it might be worth contacting Chiltern and updating your contact details. Alternatively you could arrange for your post to be redirected from your old address but I think this depends on how long it is since you moved out.

The reason Chiltern do not issue a Penalty Fare for this sort of thing is so they can check yout ticket purchasing history and if this indicates you've used other invalid tickets they will factor the cost of these into a settlement fee.

Although Chiltern are entitled to prosecute you in the Magistrates Court if they want to they will normally offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with them and who haven't come to their attention before. Expect to have to pay the cost of all the fares avoided at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for invalid tickets you purchase. In addition they will charge an admin fee, typically £150.

When Chiltern's letter arrives post a redacted copy of it in this thread, along with your draft reply and forum members will proof read it for you.

 

[jaynedad]

Welcome to the forum!

It will almost certainly be a letter sent to the address you gave. Were you given any paperwork by the inspector with a case reference number? If so it might be worth contacting Chiltern and updating your contact details. Alternatively you could arrange for your post to be redirected from your old address but I think this depends on how long it is since you moved out.

The reason Chiltern do not issue a Penalty Fare for this sort of thing is so they can check yout ticket purchasing history and if this indicates you've used other invalid tickets they will factor the cost of these into a settlement fee.

Although Chiltern are entitled to prosecute you in the Magistrates Court if they want to they will normally offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with them and who haven't come to their attention before. Expect to have to pay the cost of all the fares avoided at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for invalid tickets you purchase. In addition they will charge an admin fee, typically £150.

When Chiltern's letter arrives post a redacted copy of it in this thread, along with your draft reply and forum members will proof read it for you.

No he didn’t give me anything on the spot, he just took my details. I moved out of my old address in February. I currently don’t have a fixed address hence why I haven’t updated my provisional driving license yet so do you think it’s a good idea to try to contact them and give them an address that belongs to a friend?

 

[Snow1964]

Don't worry about the 2 child tickets for a younger brother, it is perfectly legal to buy tickets for family members (just not travel with invalid ticket).

They might bring it up and include it in list of potential discrepancies, if they do, just need to write back state the fact, perhaps adding screen shots of sending them to your brother, and asking for them to be removed from list.

In theory, if they have made error in the admin, it would be reasonable to request a reduction in any admin charge, but best not to antagonise them so might have to swallow any admin fee in full.

 

[Pushpit]

Obviously, as a 21 year old student, that prospect is scary as no company is willing to employ someone with a criminal record even if it is for dodging a train fare.

Clearly it's best to avoid getting a criminal record at that age, and it can be unhelpful in career terms. However I can assure you that the UK's biggest employer, by far, is the government, including NHS, and a significant minority of staff have some sort of criminal record. There are laws that balance the twin policies of rehabilitation against protecting the public, but if you think about traffic offences, fare dodging and various forms of youthful behaviour, it's a lot of people. 40% of men in London have a criminal record. For women it is a lot less. Most of these are deemed spent after a year, including fare evasion offences.

So it's good to resolve this with Chiltern, and a lot less stressful if you keep buying the right ticket, but it's not going to wreck your life. You do need to resolve the address problem. And for your driving licence - as an example of another criminal offence with a theoretical £1,000 fine waiting for you - it is a requirement that it shows your correct address. That can be defined many ways, but it shouldn't show an address that you cannot rely upon.

 

[Hadders]

No he didn’t give me anything on the spot, he just took my details. I moved out of my old address in February. I currently don’t have a fixed address hence why I haven’t updated my provisional driving license yet so do you think it’s a good idea to try to contact them and give them an address that belongs to a friend?

I think it's best to be proactive. You do need to be able to get hold of the letter because if you don't you'll get prosecuted in your absence and you'll be found guilty and fined. That will then be much harder to unwind and sort out.

 

[jaynedad]

Clearly it's best to avoid getting a criminal record at that age, and it can be unhelpful in career terms. However I can assure you that the UK's biggest employer, by far, is the government, including NHS, and a significant minority of staff have some sort of criminal record. There are laws that balance the twin policies of rehabilitation against protecting the public, but if you think about traffic offences, fare dodging and various forms of youthful behaviour, it's a lot of people. 40% of men in London have a criminal record. For women it is a lot less. Most of these are deemed spent after a year, including fare evasion offences.

So it's good to resolve this with Chiltern, and a lot less stressful if you keep buying the right ticket, but it's not going to wreck your life. You do need to resolve the address problem. And for your driving licence - as an example of another criminal offence with a theoretical £1,000 fine waiting for you - it is a requirement that it shows your correct address. That can be defined many ways, but it shouldn't show an address that you cannot rely upon.

Thanks for the advice. It is good to know that it’s seen as a minor offence but i want to work in finance in the future and I’ve heard companies in that sector tend do enhanced DBS checks so it probably doesn’t look great to have any type of offence on your record. About my driving license situation, is it ok if I change it to a friend’s address temporarily as I don’t have a suitable fixed address at the moment and I definitely do not want to pay £1000 fine which I cannot afford at all.

Also does a spent conviction mean it is removed from your record?

 

[Pushpit]

Thanks for the advice. It is good to know that it’s seen as a minor offence but i want to work in finance in the future and I’ve heard companies in that sector tend do enhanced DBS checks so it probably doesn’t look great to have any type of offence on your record. About my driving license situation, is it ok if I change it to a friend’s address temporarily as I don’t have a suitable fixed address at the moment and I definitely do not want to pay £1000 fine which I cannot afford at all.

Also does a spent conviction mean it is removed from your record?

OK, for enhanced DBS, that is role specific. I only handle NHS enhanced DBS, and generally fare evasion doesn't come up there, even on ultra sensitive posts such as controlled drugs pharmacy roles. They can show up, there is a complex matrix workflow involved, but that's not the real problem: if the post is exempt under the rehabilitation legislation then regardless of DBS you will be asked to disclose all convictions, cautions and (usually) other "out of court disposals" involving the police, usually with some guidance around that. And lying about that is much more problematic that the DBS wording. I often see a lot of focus on DBS, and that's just wrong, it's all about what your employer is entitled to know about. If, on the other hand, the role is covered by the rehabilitation legislation then employers are not entitled to ask about criminal records after they are spent, usually 1 year for these sorts of offences.

You don't need to change driving licence address for temporary residence changes, such as going to university during term time. By it needs to be an address where DVLA, DVSA and the police can get hold of you if necessary.