Caught using child saver railcard

[BlahBlah]

Hello everyone, please I need advice on what to do. Around 1 month ago i was caught in west midlands railway using child saver railcard in my online ticket ( i dont have the railcard )even though am over 17 years old. I did say them some reasons but they took my details and told they will get back to me, even after 4 weeks i didnt hear from them and i bought again an other ticket using the same railcard and i got an email today saying
“
On 3rd June 2024, you were spoken to by an authorised member of staff regarding a journey you made
between Leicester and London St Pancras. On this occasion, you were cautioned for travelling on 16-17
discount when you are 22 years old and do not have this card. Subsequently, you were issued with a Travel Irregularity Notice.
Travelling with invalid railcard discount, could amount to an offence under the Fraud Act 2006 (Regulation of
railways act 1889) (Railway Bylaws) and if found guilty can lead to a criminal conviction and/or a criminal
record.
Following an internal investigation, we have identified 3 bookings made on your TrainPal/CTRIP account
where journeys have been made on railway services using invalid 16-17 railcard discount. It is our belief that
these journeys were made illegitimately. If you believe this information is not accurate, please provide any
evidence or comments to [email protected].
Alternatively, please provide payment of fares for the journeys carried out between 03/06/2024 – 08/07/2024
Fare Payment £290.10
Administration fee £150.00
Total due £440.10
Payment must be made within 21 days by the following means:

If we are unable to reach a satisfactory resolution your case will be passed to our prosecutions department for further action”

As this is a lot of money my friend suggested to lie to them saying that its not me and it was someone else who did that fraud, i heard my friends advice thinking thats the best and they told me now that as i told them thats not me they are starting an investigation and asked me my BRP. I did send my BRP. Now they told they are gonna investigate into further and get back to me.

Am soo scared now as i am in student visa thinking will it affect my visa. And dont know the further consequences. Could anyone tell me whats the best thing to do now? Will i be in a lot of trouble later? Should i confess now? Or should i wait for them to finish their investigation? Am stressing up a lot and i hope someone can give me an advice on this.

 

[GadgetMan]

I suggest you make the payment, and send an email apologising and say you've paid.

If you're lucky they'll drop further investigating the lie you told about it not being you.

 

[Gloster]

Others will come along with more complete advice, but for the moment you should always buy the correct ticket: the recent purchase (yesterday?) will not help you as the railway may consider that you don’t want to learn your lesson. Do not tell any more lies: the railway are likely to know a great deal more than you think and this will only increase the likelihood of the case going to court. You have already seriously worsened your situation, although possibly not beyond repair.

We cannot by law give advice related to your visa. If necessary contact your Student’s Union.

 

[FuzzyDuck]

As this is a lot of money my friend suggested to lie to them saying that its not me and it was someone else who did that fraud, i heard my friends advice thinking thats the best and they told me now that as i told them thats not me they are starting an investigation and asked me my BRP. I did send my BRP. Now they told they are gonna investigate into further and get back to me.

There is a saying, "when you are in a hole, stop digging". This was very bad advice, the TOC was clearly willing to settle without taking it to court, based on this action you may now find yourself in court and sporting a criminal conviction as a result. Lying may also be seem as perverting the course of justice, which is much more serious offence.

My advice would to contact them and offer to pay the settlement before it goes to court.

 

[AlterEgo]

Pay them the settlement and do not even consider lying to them. If you do, then you are as stupid as your friends. The company knows it's you; they have audited your ticket purchasing accounts and you've been caught bang to rights.

As you have a BRP and are on a visa it means you are in this country only conditionally, as a guest and not a citizen. Stop ripping companies off and act like a responsible member of society, and pay your train fares properly.

 

[skyhigh]

So you were caught, and while you were waiting for the letter you were stupid enough to buy another ticket using the same discount?

And then when you did get contacted you lied and said it wasn't you?

Pay up and it'll be the end of the matter. Let them carry on with the investigation and it'll make things worse.

 

[BlahBlah]

Hi everyone, i got a penalty for using child saver railcard as i dont have one and i got the email today. i did took 2 more tickets to Leicester and way back for tomorrow with the child saver railcard last week. In the email it included the penalty for the day i was caught and also for tomorrow’s. The total is 420. Will i be able to get the penalty reduced as i didnt used the tickets for tomorrow or i might have to pay for all the 3 tickets that i took?

 

[Gloster]

Hi everyone, i got a penalty for using child saver railcard as i dont have one and i got the email today. i did took 2 more tickets to Leicester and way back for tomorrow with the child saver railcard last week. In the email it included the penalty for the day i was caught and also for tomorrow’s. The total is 420. Will i be able to get the penalty reduced as i didnt used the tickets for tomorrow or i might have to pay for all the 3 tickets that i took?

Is this a separate problem to the one you asked about in #1?

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello everyone, please I need advice on what to do. Around 1 month ago i was caught in west midlands railway using child saver railcard in my online ticket ( i dont have the railcard )even though am over 17 years old. I did say them some reasons but they took my details and told they will get back to me, even after 4 weeks i didnt hear from them and i bought again an other ticket using the same railcard and i got an email today saying
“
On 3rd June 2024, you were spoken to by an authorised member of staff regarding a journey you made
between Leicester and London St Pancras. On this occasion, you were cautioned for travelling on 16-17
discount when you are 22 years old and do not have this card. Subsequently, you were issued with a Travel Irregularity Notice.
Travelling with invalid railcard discount, could amount to an offence under the Fraud Act 2006 (Regulation of
railways act 1889) (Railway Bylaws) and if found guilty can lead to a criminal conviction and/or a criminal
record.
Following an internal investigation, we have identified 3 bookings made on your TrainPal/CTRIP account
where journeys have been made on railway services using invalid 16-17 railcard discount. It is our belief that
these journeys were made illegitimately. If you believe this information is not accurate, please provide any
evidence or comments to [email protected].
Alternatively, please provide payment of fares for the journeys carried out between 03/06/2024 – 08/07/2024
Fare Payment £290.10
Administration fee £150.00
Total due £440.10
Payment must be made within 21 days by the following means:

If we are unable to reach a satisfactory resolution your case will be passed to our prosecutions department for further action”

As this is a lot of money my friend suggested to lie to them saying that its not me and it was someone else who did that fraud, i heard my friends advice thinking thats the best and they told me now that as i told them thats not me they are starting an investigation and asked me my BRP. I did send my BRP. Now they told they are gonna investigate into further and get back to me.

Am soo scared now as i am in student visa thinking will it affect my visa. And dont know the further consequences. Could anyone tell me whats the best thing to do now? Will i be in a lot of trouble later? Should i confess now? Or should i wait for them to finish their investigation? Am stressing up a lot and i hope someone can give me an advice on this.

It’s not a lot of money compared with putting your BRP at risk and potentially your ability to keep studying here in a worst case scenario.

Fare evasion is stealing from uk taxpayers who fund the railway. You would be well advised to pay what they are asking quickly.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Since your tickets were bought online, they can trace all your ticketing history and there's no point in thinking they can't. They have every right to prosecute you in court - you would be found guilty and have to pay fines etc which would no doubt cost you more than the amount you've been asked for; and you would have a criminal record too, with all the effects that might have on you.

They're been good enough to offer you an out-of-court deal, and that's the best that can happen. You're complaining about them wanting money for - you say - tickets you haven't used yet; but you did buy them, despite already having been picked up for doing that.

Your absolute best option is not to argue with them or lie any more, but to pay exactly what they've asked extremely quickly, apologise profusely, and tell them you've learned your lesson and won't do it again (and mean it). You're on their radar now, so if you fiddle your fares again you're likely to get chased up again, and then it will be a court case and a criminal conviction.

 

[JBuchananGB]

This appears to be a case where the TOC has included in the out of court settlement offer the replacement Anytime Single costs of two tickets which are dated in the future, i.e. the OP has bought them but not used them. That does seem unusual.
Of course if the OP still intends to travel they will have to buy new tickets, as they know now that the child tickets are not valid. However I think that they should perhaps make one attempt to negotiate with the TOC because surely future dated tickets which have been bought but not used should not be calculated in the out of court settlement calculation.

 

[jumble]

Hello everyone, please I need advice on what to do. Around 1 month ago i was caught in west midlands railway using child saver railcard in my online ticket ( i dont have the railcard )even though am over 17 years old. I did say them some reasons but they took my details and told they will get back to me, even after 4 weeks i didnt hear from them and i bought again an other ticket using the same railcard and i got an email today saying
“
On 3rd June 2024, you were spoken to by an authorised member of staff regarding a journey you made
between Leicester and London St Pancras. On this occasion, you were cautioned for travelling on 16-17
discount when you are 22 years old and do not have this card. Subsequently, you were issued with a Travel Irregularity Notice.
Travelling with invalid railcard discount, could amount to an offence under the Fraud Act 2006 (Regulation of
railways act 1889) (Railway Bylaws) and if found guilty can lead to a criminal conviction and/or a criminal
record.
Following an internal investigation, we have identified 3 bookings made on your TrainPal/CTRIP account
where journeys have been made on railway services using invalid 16-17 railcard discount. It is our belief that
these journeys were made illegitimately. If you believe this information is not accurate, please provide any
evidence or comments to [email protected].
Alternatively, please provide payment of fares for the journeys carried out between 03/06/2024 – 08/07/2024
Fare Payment £290.10
Administration fee £150.00
Total due £440.10
Payment must be made within 21 days by the following means:

If we are unable to reach a satisfactory resolution your case will be passed to our prosecutions department for further action”

As this is a lot of money my friend suggested to lie to them saying that its not me and it was someone else who did that fraud, i heard my friends advice thinking thats the best and they told me now that as i told them thats not me they are starting an investigation and asked me my BRP. I did send my BRP. Now they told they are gonna investigate into further and get back to me.

Am soo scared now as i am in student visa thinking will it affect my visa. And dont know the further consequences. Could anyone tell me whats the best thing to do now? Will i be in a lot of trouble later? Should i confess now? Or should i wait for them to finish their investigation? Am stressing up a lot and i hope someone can give me an advice on this.

How can they be asking for payment of journeys that have not been carried out as if you bought a child saver today there would be no problem what ever with you travelling on the 8 July?
This must be a typo or the date range is wrong
Can you clarify if any journey has been booked but not yet made

For the next stage You need to reflect on how many of the reports that EMT hold will meet the following criteria
Person stopped on 3 June 2024
3 journeys booked Leicester to St Pancras between 3 June and 8 July ( presumably one was actually 8 July)
Traveller lied by stating "it wasn't me gov"
I would think it extremely likely you are the only one and you have admitted on here that it was you.
You and Your "friends" are really not very savvy

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jul 2024 ==

This appears to be a case where the TOC has included in the out of court settlement offer the replacement Anytime Single costs of two tickets which are dated in the future, i.e. the OP has bought them but not used them. That does seem unusual.
Of course if the OP still intends to travel they will have to buy new tickets, as they know now that the child tickets are not valid. However I think that they should perhaps make one attempt to negotiate with the TOC because surely future dated tickets which have been bought but not used should not be calculated in the out of court settlement calculation.

If the OP buys the correct railcard before travel then why would they need to buy new tickets or not use the ones they have booked?
( assuming I am understanding the situation correctly)

 

[JBuchananGB]

It seems the OP has bought tickets for future travel using a railcard discount to which they are not entitled, but has not travelled. Obviously for that intended journey they will need to buy correct tickets. It's not just a case of buying a railcard because they are not entitled to that card. But why has the TOC included the fares for that future journey in the the out of court settlement calculation? Surely this could be challenged.

 

[Flange Squeal]

If the OP buys the correct railcard before travel then why would they need to buy new tickets or not use the ones they have booked?
( assuming I am understanding the situation correctly)

Because in their original post it appears they bought tickets with a 16-17 Saver railcard discount applied but are 22 years of age. 22 year olds cannot have 16-17 railcards because they are too old.

 

[jumble]

Because in their original post it appears they bought tickets with a 16-17 Saver railcard discount applied but are 22 years of age. 22 year olds cannot have 16-17 railcards because they are too old.

It seems the OP has bought tickets for future travel using a railcard discount to which they are not entitled, but has not travelled. Obviously for that intended journey they will need to buy correct tickets. It's not just a case of buying a railcard because they are not entitled to that card. But why has the TOC included the fares for that future journey in the the out of court settlement calculation? Surely this could be challenged.

You are correct I misunderstood
It should certainly be challenged but only after the OP has actually confirmed if these tickets are actually unused.

 

[island]

Yes, it's unreasonable for the train company to make demands for payment in connection with unused tickets.