Caught with out of date Railcard since January 2023

[xanax]

Hello, to give a bit of background, I've recently graduated (July 2023), am portuguese and have Pre-Settled Status condition under the UK Settlement Scheme.
During my placement year I bought a railcard for the first time, so that I could go back to uni every now and then at a discounted price. I've been using trainline to buy my train tickets and never thought about the Railcard ever again, however I wrongly continued to use it without realising. Today (November 5th 2023) a very harsh inspector asked me for my ticket and for my railcard. When he saw the expire date we proceeded to look at all my pass travels and taking pictures all while taking my personal information and without telling me why he was doing any of it. I never had anyone ask me for my Railcard before, I didn't even know where to find it on the App, he did it himself on my phone. I understand it is my responsibility to check if I have a valid ticket, however this was an honest mistake and nothing or anyone ever questioned me, hence I never remembered to check ever again if my Railcard was still valid.
My biggest concern is how this will affect my Criminal Record as this will affect significantly my Career and life moving forwards. I am willing to pay whatever fine I get, I am aware of my irresponsibility for not checking and forgetting about it. What should expect now in regards to this situation? Is it a possibility that I will be prosecuted without having the option to pay a fine first?

Thank you for reading and please reply with your knowledge, I'm extremely concerned and stressed over this matter.

I have checked and I have bought 24 train tickets since January, all varying between £2‐£30. No one ever checked me. I am extremely scared about the consequences and just want an out of court settlement, how likely will I be able to get this in your opinion?

Thank you

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Welcome to the forum!

Please could you let us know which train company you were travelling on when the problem was found? That's because while many train companies are often prepared to 'settle out of court' so that you pay them without the matter being dealt with by the criminal courts, the different companies have different policies - some are easier to settle with than others.

 

[Brissle Girl]

There are two possibilities here, and usually (though as @FawkesCat says, attitudes between train companies do vary), it is possible to get an offer of an out of court settlement. This offer would consist of two elements - an administrative cost of between £50 and £250 - we see a big variation between companies, and payment of the fares avoided. This would not be the difference between the full fare and railcard fare, but would usually be based on the full price. So you may want to look back at the tickets affected and work out roughly how much this would cost you, as in the event of a settlement being offered, you would be expected to pay the amount requested very quickly.

 

[xanax]

Welcome to the forum!

Please could you let us know which train company you were travelling on when the problem was found? That's because while many train companies are often prepared to 'settle out of court' so that you pay them without the matter being dealt with by the criminal courts, the different companies have different policies - some are easier to settle with than others.

I was travelling on Great Western Railway. Thank you for replying to my post.

There are two possibilities here, and usually (though as @FawkesCat says, attitudes between train companies do vary), it is possible to get an offer of an out of court settlement. This offer would consist of two elements - an administrative cost of between £50 and £250 - we see a big variation between companies, and payment of the fares avoided. This would not be the difference between the full fare and railcard fare, but would usually be based on the full price. So you may want to look back at the tickets affected and work out roughly how much this would cost you, as in the event of a settlement being offered, you would be expected to pay the amount requested very quickly.

Thank you for this, I had the same thought and I worked out that a rough estimate of the sum of the full price tickets I used was about £400 (obviously I paid 66% of that but it doesnt matter in this case). I truly just want to pay and solve this out of court, I cannot have anything on my criminal record, if I could I would pay right now. I feel so ashamed for not having checked, for not realising, I've never felt this bad in my entire life.

 

[Mzzzs]

A problem you may encounter is that the railcard has been expired for something like 10 months, this is a long time Great Western Railway are most likely will be very sceptical of your story. Further more the fact you had trouble finding the app for the railcard and the staff had to find it wont help your case.
Saying that there is always a chance you can get a settlement.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

GWR are one of the more pragmatic train companies when it comes to this sort of thing. GWR will write to yo in the next few weeks asking for your version of events before deciding how to proceed. It is important that you reply promptly to this letter. I suggest mentioning the following points in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. GWR are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and they are within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court should they decide to do so.

An aggravating factor in your case is that you have done this before. The train company will be able to search your purchase history and you will need to be careful how you reply to the letter. You should answer the questions they ask for truthfully but you are not required to incriminate yourself either.

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the train company and circumstances but tend to be around £150 plus the outstanding fares. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

Please note that we are unable to offer any advice in relation to your immigration status.

 

[xanax]

A problem you may encounter is that the railcard has been expired for something like 10 months, this is a long time Great Western Railway are most likely will be very sceptical of your story. Further more the fact you had trouble finding the app for the railcard and the staff had to find it wont help your case.
Saying that there is always a chance you can get a settlement.

I completely understand, I wish I had realised sooner or that they had checked sooner, the app doesn't stop you from using it or gives any kind of warning when it is expired. I'm not trying to give excuses I know it is my responsability to check, I really just need an out of court settlement and that this can be forgotten. How likely do you think it is for them to choose to prosecute me right away without giving me the chance to reply with an apology and request for out of court settlement?

Welcome to the forum!

GWR are one of the more pragmatic train companies when it comes to this sort of thing. GWR will write to yo in the next few weeks asking for your version of events before deciding how to proceed. It is important that you reply promptly to this letter. I suggest mentioning the following points in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. GWR are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and they are within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court should they decide to do so.

An aggravating factor in your case is that you have done this before. The train company will be able to search your purchase history and you will need to be careful how you reply to the letter. You should answer the questions they ask for truthfully but you are not required to incriminate yourself either.

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the train company and circumstances but tend to be around £150 plus the outstanding fares. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

Please note that we are unable to offer any advice in relation to your immigration status.

Thank you very much for your reply. How likely do you think I will be to get prosecuted right away? And how likely would it be for them to accept an out of court settlement?

 

[Deafdoggie]

I completely understand, I wish I had realised sooner or that they had checked sooner, the app doesn't stop you from using it or gives any kind of warning when it is expired. I'm not trying to give excuses I know it is my responsability to check, I really just need an out of court settlement and that this can be forgotten.

Whilst you can have a railcard in the trainline app, you can also have one in the railcard app, or an actual paper/plastic version. The app has no way of knowing if you have renewed it elsewhere. The onus is on you to check before each journey. Ignorance is, I'm afraid, no excuse.

 

[Hadders]

Thank you very much for your reply. How likely do you think I will be to get prosecuted right away? And how likely would it be for them to accept an out of court settlement?

I’d say there’s a good chance of keeping the case out of court if you engage as per my post above.

 

[xanax]

Whilst you can have a railcard in the trainline app, you can also have one in the railcard app, or an actual paper/plastic version. The app has no way of knowing if you have renewed it elsewhere. The onus is on you to check before each journey. Ignorance is, I'm afraid, no excuse.

I understand, I should have informed myself, lesson learnt.

I’d say there’s a good chance of keeping the case out of court if you engage as per my post above.

Thank you, this gives me hope.

 

[AlterEgo]

A problem you may encounter is that the railcard has been expired for something like 10 months, this is a long time Great Western Railway are most likely will be very sceptical of your story. Further more the fact you had trouble finding the app for the railcard and the staff had to find it wont help your case.
Saying that there is always a chance you can get a settlement.

GWR settle in basically every single case we’ve seen on the forum.

 

[spag23]

I assume the OP has bought a new Railcard, and set a reliable reminder (paper or app) of its expiry. And he/she should mention both of these actions in their reply to them. Personally I prefer a physical Railcard (and indeed tickets), rather than run the risks associated with mobile phones. That way , you see the Card (and its date) every time you open your wallet or purse. But I'm told some people (under 60?) no longer carry these .
There have been long debates on this forum about sellers issuing reminders or cross-checking Railcard validity. But no "cure" has been found or implemented. So,at the end of the day, it currently remains the passengers' responsibility.

 

[xanax]

Do you guys think I should just wait for the letter to arrive or should I contact someone now and let them know I would like a settlement and am happy to pay whatever they ask? The waiting is one of the most frustrating and miserable parts, right after knowing the mistake I made.
Also, should I get a solicitor to help me with my reply letter? Or should I ask the Early Careers team at my work for advice and help? In your experience what should I do in the meantime while I don't receive a letter?

 

[Haywain]

Do you guys think I should just wait for the letter to arrive or should I contact someone now and let them know I would like a settlement and am happy to pay whatever they ask? The waiting is one of the most frustrating and miserable parts, right after knowing the mistake I made.

Wait for a letter. It takes time for things to work through their systems.

 

[xanax]

Wait for a letter. It takes time for things to work through their systems.

Thank you!

 

[spag23]

And trying to queue-jump only disrupts their processes, to no benefit to anyone. In any case, they already know that most people would prefer a settlement over a prosecution. Frustrating, we know, but as others have said, you can only wait.

 

[xanax]

I assume the OP has bought a new Railcard, and set a reliable reminder (paper or app) of its expiry. And he/she should mention both of these actions in their reply to them. Personally I prefer a physical Railcard (and indeed tickets), rather than run the risks associated with mobile phones. That way , you see the Card (and its date) every time you open your wallet or purse. But I'm told some people (under 60?) no longer carry these .
There have been long debates on this forum about sellers issuing reminders or cross-checking Railcard validity. But no "cure" has been found or implemented. So,at the end of the day, it currently remains the passengers' responsibility.

This is great advice, thank you, I will make sure to mention this in my reply!

And trying to queue-jump only disrupts their processes, to no benefit to anyone. In any case, they already know that most people would prefer a settlement over a prosecution. Frustrating, we know, but as others have said, you can only wait.

Thank you, I appreciate your advice!