Caught without a ticket, charged a penalty fare, can they check my trainline history?

[throwawayshame]

Thank you in advance for your advice.

I was caught last week at London Paddington without a ticket when I got off my train. I was charged a penalty fare by a GWR employee for my journey from Newbury to London Paddington, which I paid the same day. I wasn't questioned under caution (as far as I am aware) but I do think the GWR employee did not believe me when I said I had been able to get into Newbury station without a ticket. I gave my home address, name, showed ID, and signed something to confirm all that information was correct. I also provided my email address when I paid the penalty fare. What I would like to know is whether it is possible (and if so, how likely) that this incident will prompt GWR to check my trainline account history. Thank you.

 

[signed]

What I would like to know is whether it is possible (and if so, how likely) that this incident will prompt GWR to check my trainline account history

It is always possible, but with a straight Penalty Fare, quite unlikely.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

What I would like to know is whether it is possible (and if so, how likely) that this incident will prompt GWR to check my trainline account history. Thank you.

What's that likely to show? You don't have to answer this!

 

[throwawayshame]

What's that likely to show? You don't have to answer this!

Well it is going to show short-faring, which I am now realising is not the creative way to save money I had been convincing myself it was and is - in fact - a crime. I am so worried that right now I would prefer a "you owe us lots of money, pay up and we can keep it out of court" letter than the silence.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As long as it's not TfL, if they do find something a settlement is generally offered. Or for a PF they probably won't even find it.

It's only really TfL that tends to prosecute every case. Hopefully those journeys were all on GWR and not the Lizzie.

What you obviously need to do now is make sure you always have a valid ticket when you travel. A second one and they may do more digging. I'm guessing it was in fact a short fare that got you into Newbury...

 

[throwawayshame]

As long as it's not TfL, if they do find something a settlement is generally offered. Or for a PF they probably won't even find it.

It's only really TfL that tends to prosecute every case. Hopefully those journeys were all on GWR and not the Lizzie.

What you obviously need to do now is make sure you always have a valid ticket when you travel. A second one and they may do more digging. I'm guessing it was in fact a short fare that got you into Newbury...

Thank you, this is really helpful. They were all on GWR, yes.

 

[Hadders]

GWR won't take any further action in respect of the incident on the day where you were caught.

They are likely to audit your Trainline history and might decide to contact you if they believe there are irregularities. Purchasing invalid tickets is not illegal but using them is and if GWR want to prosecute you then they would have to be able to prove to a court that the tickets purchased have been used illegally. This is not impossible but it isn't easy for them to do. What they're more likely to do is to offer you an out of court settlement, as long as you co-operate with them.

If you do get a letter from GWR then post a copy of it in this thread (with personal details redacted) and we can assist with next steps.

 

[throwawayshame]

GWR won't take any further action in respect of the incident on the day where you were caught.

They are likely to audit your Trainline history and might decide to contact you if they believe there are irregularities. Purchasing invalid tickets is not illegal but using them is and if GWR want to prosecute you then they would have to be able to prove to a court that the tickets purchased have been used illegally. This is not impossible but it isn't easy for them to do. What they're more likely to do is to offer you an out of court settlement, as long as you co-operate with them.

If you do get a letter from GWR then post a copy of it in this thread (with personal details redacted) and we can assist with next steps.

Thank you @Hadders for such a comprehensive reply. I had two clarifying questions - do you mean they will likely audit the trainline history because of the PF? Or that they will likely audit it at some point. I just wasn't sure as you said they won't take further action in the first line (I imagine you mean anything specifically about that incident).

Second, what do you mean by "purchasing invalid tickets"? I purchased real and valid tickets, but not always covering the full journey. Thanks again.

 

[stuartl]

As your tickets were deliberately purchased for a shorter journey than the one you actually took, then I would think that the TOC would consider it invalid.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

I purchased real and valid tickets, but not always covering the full journey. Thanks again.

Which in essence means that on all occasions where you travelled on short tickets, you in effect had no valid ticket.
If they audit your purchasing history, any settlement offer will treat each and every return trip from Newbury to Paddington as requiring you to settle based on the price of two Anytime Singles (one in each direction).

 

[John R]

One question is what were the circumstances of you being caught at Paddington without a ticket. If you had a short fare ticket for the last stop into Paddington then why were you stopped? The answer may help determine whether or not they will look any deeper into your activities.

 

[Snow1964]

I am not clear about how you think they would know about your trainline history, unless you told them. Not having a ticket means they wouldn't know how you might have bought some in the past.

GDPR stops anyone randomly asking if anyone at your address or with your name just happens to have an account, and if an account exists, have no reason to look at it. There is the ability to ask for it when a crime is suspected but can't do it as some sort of fishing in case by chance come across a crime.

If you used the same payment card to pay the penalty then there is theoretically another link up, but again if penalty was paid and closed and your name wasn't on some list of those previously caught, then very unlikely any digging into history will happen.

 

[Hadders]

Thank you @Hadders for such a comprehensive reply. I had two clarifying questions - do you mean they will likely audit the trainline history because of the PF? Or that they will likely audit it at some point. I just wasn't sure as you said they won't take further action in the first line (I imagine you mean anything specifically about that incident).

Second, what do you mean by "purchasing invalid tickets"? I purchased real and valid tickets, but not always covering the full journey. Thanks again.

They won't take any further action in respect of the incident where you were stopped. That has been dealt with by issuing you with a Panelty Fare. But GWR might look at your Trainline history and if this suggests regular purchasing of tickets that don't cover your full journey (eg someone living at Reading and regularly buys Reading to Twyford and Action Mainline to Paddington tickets) then they may contact you to ask about this.

A 'real and valid' ticket that doesn't cover the full journey you're making isn't valid!