Changes to ECML north of Newcastle: suggestion from East Lothian Community Rail Partnership

[ian1944]

This is the substance of a letter to the current issue of the local paper from the chair of East Lothian Community Rail Partnership, in reply to a previous one claiming that HS2 to Leeds would not benefit people in Scotland:

Peter Swain is hopelessly wrong in his belief that the proposed high-speed rail line between London and Leeds will not benefit people in Scotland, and particularly local people who he claims will be paying for something which they will not use.

It is proposed that as an extension to HS2, lines beyond it to the north be upgraded. Earlier this year, Network Rail produced a top line plan showing that a largely new line was proposed between Newcastle and roughly Wallyford/Musselburgh.

This will bypass Morpeth and Penmanshiel, where severe speed restrictions are in force, and also result in a route being taken inland from the cliffs north of Berwick due to fears regarding coastal erosion.

An outline plan of the route suggests that in East Lothian the line will roughly follow the A1. Twenty minutes will be shaved off timings to Newcastle. If implemented, this would mean that Haddington could have a high-speed railway connection.

It would also result in the current mainline trains to London using the new line and leaving the existing track for local and freight trains, which would enable the frequency of local services to be increased to half-hourly or better all day. This benefits huge swathes of East Lothian and fits in well with the future Blindwells

[a new town of ultimately 8000 – 10,000 population currently being built beside the main line north of Tranent] transport requirements.

There is a suggestion that the section of the new line from roughly Wallyford to Dunbar can be completed now, ahead of the remainder, to alleviate pressure on the current line. Its length is considerably shorter than the Borders line.

With HS2 currently estimated to cost £106bn, around £9bn will come to Scotland under the Barnett formula theoretically to pay for this and other rail improvements. In other words, this funding is ultimately coming from Westminster, unless of course Scotland becomes independent in the interim, when all Barnett funding will cease.

With stations at East Linton and Reston still not having been re-opened decades after first being proposed, all of this seems wildly optimistic, so could someone more knowledgeable than me say how realistic it is, with links to the source of what is proposed/suggested?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

This doesn't square with the current intention to serve Edinburgh via HS2 and the WCML route via Carlisle.
I haven't seen any reference to a "new line" being contemplated between Newcastle and Edinburgh.
Until the eastern leg of HS2 is confirmed, there is little point in speculating about possible ECML route improvements north of York.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

The North East group, who regularly pop up on news articles in that area, have some exceptional pipe dreams. Realistically, work will be needed on the ECML eventually however a route has been identified for the bulk of passenger flow between Scotland and the North (via Manchester), the Midlands and London.

Surely, passenger flow will in fact be constricted deliberately to have two ’long‘ trains an hour from Edinburgh to Newcastle and back, probably calling at all major stations e.g. Dunbar, Alnmouth and Morpeth. Freight will also be biased that way.

The thing nobody is thinking about is some form of hourly stopping-ish train operated jointly by Scotrail and Northern or whoever that also takes in some smaller stations in Tyneside and east of Edinburgh.

 

[class26]

This is the substance of a letter to the current issue of the local paper from the chair of East Lothian Community Rail Partnership, in reply to a previous one claiming that HS2 to Leeds would not benefit people in Scotland:



With stations at East Linton and Reston still not having been re-opened decades after first being proposed, all of this seems wildly optimistic, so could someone more knowledgeable than me say how realistic it is, with links to the source of what is proposed/suggested?

Can you give any links to these "new " lines please? I follow the ECML fairly closely, living close to it but have never heard of this.
The latest Network rail document re ECML upgrade featured the stretch between York and Newcastle only
Thanks

 

[ABB125]

I don't wish to drag this thread off topic much, but why does Scotland get Barnett formula money from HS2? Scotland benefits from the project. Is it simply the fact that the new infrastructure is all in England? What are the criteria for Barnett money?
Thanks very much

 

[XAM2175]

but why does Scotland get Barnett formula money from HS2? Scotland benefits from the project. Is it simply the fact that the new infrastructure is all in England? What are the criteria for Barnett money?

Yes, it's more to do with the fact that the spending is entirely in England, and that transport is a devolved responsibility. There are no "criteria" for Barnett allocations per se - it's just the default calculation used to roughly match funding for the devolved governments to spending in England by Westminster.

However the exact nature of the spending does influence the Barnett allocations; since HS2 is deemed by the Treasury to be "national" project only Scotland and Northern Ireland receive additional funding, whereas Crossrail (being administered by TfL) is considered to be a "local" project and thus causes additional funding for Wales as well as Scotland and NI.

 

[David 90825]

Can you give any links to these "new " lines please? I follow the ECML fairly closely, living close to it but have never heard of this.
The latest Network rail document re ECML upgrade featured the stretch between York and Newcastle only
Thanks

I haven't seen anything from Network Rail but in 2018 High Speed UK (HSUK) came up with numerous proposals one of which included a new line from Ferryhill to Edinburgh, presumably tunnelling under Newcastle and passing west of Morpeth and Alnwick, across to Wooler and passing east of Dalkeith. This was an attempt to "offer the people of the UK a real choice to the failing HS2 proposals." The website is www.highspeeduk.co.uk

 

[ABB125]

Yes, it's more to do with the fact that the spending is entirely in England, and that transport is a devolved responsibility. There are no "criteria" for Barnett allocations per se - it's just the default calculation used to roughly match funding for the devolved governments to spending in England by Westminster.

However the exact nature of the spending does influence the Barnett allocations; since HS2 is deemed by the Treasury to be "national" project only Scotland and Northern Ireland receive additional funding, whereas Crossrail (being administered by TfL) is considered to be a "local" project and thus causes additional funding for Wales as well as Scotland and NI.

Thanks for the explanation. It seems to me that, for HS2, Scotland shouldn't get any extra money since it benefits, but Wales should get some because it doesn't!
Anyway, back to the original topic of the northern ECML.

 

[swt_passenger]

I haven't seen anything from Network Rail but in 2018 High Speed UK (HSUK) came up with numerous proposals one of which included a new line from Ferryhill to Edinburgh, presumably tunnelling under Newcastle and passing west of Morpeth and Alnwick, across to Wooler and passing east of Dalkeith. This was an attempt to "offer the people of the UK a real choice to the failing HS2 proposals." The website is www.highspeeduk.co.uk

So an idea with no official support at all? I wouldn't expect Network Rail to have any involvement with such a proposal anyway, you won’t have missed anything there.

 

[gavin1985]

Trransport Scotland are in the "middle" of drafting up potiential routes for High Speed rail for Glasgow/Edinburgh to the borders. Although not a clue what the status of this is as nothing has been mentioned since 2018/2019.

High Speed Rail

www.transport.gov.scot