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Changes to HS2 as part of Integrated Rail Plan

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edwin_m

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Upgrades north of York would benefit both London and Transpennine services, and could also deal with the uneven frequency of service between the stations along the ECML, which is caused by the need to accommodate different services with different speeds. I didn't see any mention in the IRP though (but only done a quick read). Perhaps it's bundled with the general ECML upgrades.
 
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Shrop

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HS2 was never coming here anyway. No one other than opportunistic politicians here gives a monkeys about the Eastern leg not reaching Leeds. Upgrades to LNER and the trans Pennines service much more important. False outcry
Upgrades are only worth much if they involve changing 2 tracks to 4 and significant straightening out of corners. It's precisely because these things were considered too difficult that an entirely new route was planned. In all likelihood Boris's promises made yesterday will be downgraded further and further so that what we'll end up with is some planner's pipedream which claims it will be able to run faster trains, but in practice it will be fraught with problems because realities will happen.
Lines which were singled some years ago were done on a planner's pipedream of efficiency, pretending to offer minimal or even no delays, which Government fell for. The realities are that trains are delayed time and time again, connections don't happen even when passengers have arrived and are physically trying to unlock the train doors to get in, as operators are frightened of losing another 10 seconds and incur penalties. The same will happen with this spin promise of upgrades, a huge amount of what looks good on paper to the gullible (ie politicians, and those members of the press and public who believe them) will regularly fail because of the double whammy of further cuts, and realities once in operation.
 

WestRiding

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I wonder how much land has already been purchased for the eastern leg, I wonder how much will be sold off at a fraction of it's value to the Tories and their donors...
Well, I doubt anyone really cares, but the Cattery in South Kirkby on Brierley Moor closed 2 years ago after getting bought by HS2 or whoever. What
a waste.
 

Yindee8191

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I suspect the Manchester section was at least partially kept because it’s only a small extension to Phase 2a, which they can’t wriggle out of as it’s already in early construction. Also, dropping Manchester would mean claiming to connect the North would seem even more farcical.
 

Bletchleyite

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I suspect the Manchester section was at least partially kept because it’s only a small extension to Phase 2a, which they can’t wriggle out of as it’s already in early construction. Also, dropping Manchester would mean claiming to connect the North would seem even more farcical.

I suspect it was kept because the capacity and resilience benefits to south Manchester are significant set against the cost.
 

HST43257

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Also, dropping Manchester would mean claiming to connect the North would seem even more farcical.
I’m sure they’d try and get out of it by publishing an official north/south divide map showing the divide line no further north than Watford! :lol:
 

MarkyT

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I suspect it was kept because the capacity and resilience benefits to south Manchester are significant set against the cost.
And the tunnel section between Piccadilly and the airport has east-west NPR as well as north-south HS2 functionality.
 

greyman42

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HS2 was never coming here anyway. No one other than opportunistic politicians here gives a monkeys about the Eastern leg not reaching Leeds. Upgrades to LNER and the trans Pennines service much more important. False outcry
Agreed.
 

jfollows

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CNN has belatedly got into this, perhaps interesting as a "foreign" perspective although (until Virgin withdrew it from my package a few weeks ago anway) it seems to have more British journalists than American ones.
Essentially nothing new, but the reporting seems accurate enough, with comments about "The government has managed to disappoint virtually everybody" attributed to Terence O'Neill. Trains will "whizz" from London to Manchester but East Midlands, Yorkshire and the north-east will have trains which run at half whizzing speed and often less (https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/britain-railways-hs2-cut/index.html).
The 'betrayal' that could kill Britain's railway romance

Ben Jones, CNN • Published 27th November 2021

(CNN) — The romance of rail travel has seduced many travelers over the years. Sitting in a train as it slips quietly out of a city, along tunnels and viaducts, sneaking glimpses of people's backyards before rolling into open countryside is one of life's true pleasures.

It's a love affair that started in Britain, as pioneering steam trains offered speed and comfort while linking the country's great urban centers to its furthest corners, then quickly spread around the world.

Yet, while railway passions continue to burn strong in countries across Asia and Europe, with investment in high speed networks cementing their place as the future of sustainable transport, in the UK the relationship is looking less than healthy.

It's no secret that things have been on the rocks for a while.

Sure there are good days when on-time services deliver happy passengers to their destinations. But there are too many bad days of complaints, overcrowding, cancellations, delays and soaring prices -- particularly in the north of England.

Which is partly why the latest news about HS2 -- an under-construction rail line designed to offer a dedicated high speed link between London and Birmingham, the UK's second largest city, and densely populated city regions further north -- has caused such upset.

An amputation

HS2 was originally conceived as a Y-shaped network that, once at Birmingham, would branch left and right toward the cities of Manchester and Leeds, taking in both sides of the country. Now the eastern arm of the route has been amputated.

HS2 was already controversial, raising objections from communities blighted by its construction, environmentalists trying to save ancient woodland lying in its path and others who argue that an estimated £88 billion ($118 billion) is a steep price for marginally faster travel.

But the UK government sold the project to voters as a chance to "level up" deprived post-industrial areas across central and northern regions through investment in improved infrastructure to create "northern powerhouses."

Then the ax fell. Just days after it hosted the COP26 climate deal in Glasgow, the government scrapped a huge chunk of a project that was one of the pillars of its own decarbonization strategy.

And instead of the ambitious goals of reconnecting forsaken parts of the country with new high speed lines, it was instead now promising to simply upgrade existing lines dating from the 19th century. In another controversial decision, the government last month announced a 50% reduction on air passenger duty for internal flights, a measure seen as detrimental to rail travel.

Incandescent politicians, business leaders and regional media lined up to criticize the cutbacks, which came after months of leaks contradicting promises by Prime Minister Boris Johnson that the HS2 line would be built in full.

The cuts were announced by the UK's transport minister, Grant Shapps, as part of a $129 billion plan he described as the "biggest ever single investment in Britain's railways" -- a claim quickly assailed by critics including lawmakers from Johnson's ruling Conservative party.

Among them is Terence O'Neill, a Conservative former government minister who now sits in the House of Lords upper parliamentary chamber and vice chairs the Northern Powerhouse Partnership group of politicians and business leaders from across the north of England.

"The government has managed to disappoint virtually everybody," he said in a TV interview with Sky News. "It's shambolic. Who would have thought that announcing a package of work close to £100 billion could go down so badly?

"They've talked 60-70 times about delivering Northern Powerhouse Rail in full and they've penny-pinched. Even in Manchester where we're still getting HS2, we haven't got a new station or better links to Leeds."

East-west divide

Critics pointed out much of the money had been announced before or represented revived projects previously canceled by the Conservatives.

Some said the investment was simply inadequate to meet climate change targets requiring radical changes to travel habits.

Of the $129 billion total, almost half was already accounted for spending on the HS2 line between London and Birmingham, plus its left-hand extension to the central England rail junction city of Crewe.

Another $22.6 billion was earmarked for the new line to Manchester and connections to the UK's existing West Coast Main Line, allowing faster connections to cities in the northwest, North Wales and Scotland by the 2030s.

Meanwhile, on the eastern side of the country, the right-hand side of the HS2 line will be replaced by an amputated stump that peters out somewhere near Nottingham, leaving great swathes of territory unserviced by improved connections.

Some fear such cost-cutting could create a new east-west divide in England to rival the already sharp economic divide between north and south. The combined counties of Yorkshire, in northeast England, will get just two miles of new railway.

To sweeten the deal, the government has promised future investment in upgrading track linking the northern cities of York, Leeds, Manchester and Liverpool to increase speed and capacity, plus electrification of links between London, Nottingham and Sheffield and track improvements on the country's East Coast Main Line.

While these valuable schemes could partially compensate for the cuts, delivery timescales still extend into the 2040s and they will still need to win funding approval -- a notoriously difficult challenge for major infrastructure projects.

Unlike the London-Manchester route, where HS2 trains will whizz from city to city on all-new lines at up to 400kph (250mph), Services to the East Midlands, Yorkshire and the north-east will have to run at just half that speed -- and often much less -- to reach their destinations.

While journey times will still be significantly reduced, the high-speed trains will have to compete for track space with existing inter-city trains, regional services and slow-moving freight on lines that are already struggling to cope with congestion.

Sacrificing stations

According to rail engineer and commentator Gareth Dennis, the new plans undermine HS2's original goal of segregating long-distance high speed lines to free up capacity for more regional and local services.

It's a development, he says, that "threatens the most significant cuts to local rail services since the 1960s."

The downgrade of the proposed Northern Powerhouse Rail project is likely to scupper goals of reducing congestion and stimulating regional economies.

It will leave millions of people relying on piecemeal upgrades to Victorian railways and casts doubt on the prime minister's commitment to his flagship "leveling up" policy.

"The impact on the city of Leeds, for example, cannot be overstated," adds Dennis. "Where previously we expected new high-speed platforms to free up space for more local services running east-west we now have nothing.

"Where previously we had the potential for London-style metro services over the Pennines to Manchester and everywhere in between, we will have a reduction in local services to accommodate long-distance trains."

"Where Leeds should have had high-speed services to Sheffield, Bradford and Manchester over new lines, these routes will now be less reliable as they mix with local services and they'll likely require local services and perhaps some stations to be sacrificed. It's nothing short of a betrayal."

Overcoming the historical divide in living standards, economic output and productivity between prosperous southeast England and the north has been likened by some to efforts required to reunify Germany after the Berlin Wall fell in 1989.

Over the last 30 years Germany has invested hundreds of billions of dollars in new roads, railways and other infrastructure to try to bridge the gap between the states of the former communist east and their wealthier western neighbors.

Public transport spending in England has long been an example of disparity between London and the regions. Annual investment is more than $1,330 per head in the capital compared to about one third that in Yorkshire and the northeast of England.

The East Midlands fares even worse with investment per head just one-quarter of the total enjoyed in London.

HS2 was expected to be the catalyst for changing this, with the most obvious upswing being felt in the big city regions outside the capital.

Its supporters are hoping that the fierce backlash against the government's new plans will force a policy reversal.

However, given the scale of investment required to deliver the plans in full at a time when the cost of dealing with Covid-19 and delivering the UK's Brexit from Europe is mounting up, it seems unlikely.

More congestion

Until the pandemic, the most pressing problem for Britain's railways was coping with rising demand -- trying to run ever more trains on a network largely dating from the 19th century was having a detrimental effect on reliability and punctuality.

Tracks and trains were showing their age and, unlike many other railways in Europe, Asia and North America, adding extra seats by running longer or double-deck trains is not possible due to the limitations of the old infrastructure.

For the British rail industry, building HS2 in full was the key to unlocking massive extra capacity for passengers and freight.

In its previous form, the Y-shaped HS2 network would have relieved all three of the main routes from London to northern England and Scotland -- the West Coast, East Coast and Midland Main Lines. Without the eastern leg, it becomes largely a bypass for the former and potentially creates more congestion on the other two.

While UK railways are undoubtedly successful in many areas, not least in having the best safety record in Europe over the last decade, they are widely regarded as expensive and inefficient compared to similar networks in mainland Europe. Costs for upgrades such as electrification are three times higher than the average elsewhere in the world and the inability to deliver major projects on time or within budget is an ongoing concern.

Many of the issues being experienced are not exclusive to Britain. Congestion, overcrowding, crumbling 19th century infrastructure, and climate change all have an effect on costs and reliability, even in countries such as Switzerland and Germany.

Repairing and enhancing the network is an expensive business, especially at a time when Covid era commuter travel patterns threaten the bedrock of season ticket revenue that has underpinned the passenger railway for more than a century.

Period of uncertainty

However, coming after a traumatic timetable meltdown that exposed systemic weaknesses in Britain's rail industry in 2018, the collapse of passenger numbers due to Covid-19 finally killed off a flawed franchising model that has seen private companies running passenger services since the mid-1990s.

Over the last two years the UK government has effectively renationalized its rail system, reluctantly spending up to $1.3 billion a month to prop up ailing operators.

Once again, the country that gave railways to the world faces a period of uncertainty as its passenger rail industry is reorganized from the top down for the fifth time in a century.

The widespread outrage over the scaling back of HS2 in November looks unlikely to dissipate quickly, but whether it will lead to a rethink remains to be seen.

In the meantime, Britain's now-rivals in the European Union are accelerating investment in new metros, high-capacity regional networks and high-speed lines that will be the backbone of their economies over the next century.

For all it complains about its trains, Britain retains a huge fondness for railways and many know that they must play a central role in the country's fight against climate change.

It's possible that, at some point in the future, the romance will be rekindled.
 

andyjd70

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It rules out dropping the spur altogether unless replaced with a better option.

The options therefore boil down to
A. Address the two track bottleneck and grade separate the WCML junctions south of Wigan
B. Extend the Golborne spur further north
C. Upgrades to the WCML to achieve the 3 hour London-Glasgow/Edinburgh are so effective they can accept the time/capacity penalty of dropping the spur and still achieve the target.
D. The Union Connectivity study recommends reinstating the spurs axed depot junction and increasing the linespeed to operate Scotland-Manchester services via the Golborne spur altering the alignment.
The union connectivity review was published yesterday, hs2 and wcml link is discussed starting on page 39:

 

HowardGWR

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CNN has belatedly got into this, perhaps interesting as a "foreign" perspective although (until Virgin withdrew it from my package a few weeks ago anway) it seems to have more British journalists than American ones.
Essentially nothing new, but the reporting seems accurate enough, with comments about "The government has managed to disappoint virtually everybody" attributed to Terence O'Neill. Trains will "whizz" from London to Manchester but East Midlands, Yorkshire and the north-east will have trains which run at half whizzing speed and often less (https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/britain-railways-hs2-cut/index.html).
You get acompletely different set of articles if you access CNN via a vpn and pretend you are in USA. I doubt whether Americans see what we see about these matters.
 

Shrop

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You get acompletely different set of articles if you access CNN via a vpn and pretend you are in USA. I doubt whether Americans see what we see about these matters.
The CNN article is well written and a lot more to the point than much UK coverage, which is largely thinly veiled attemps to protect politicians and rail "experts" who ought to be embarrassed for the flaws in design, foresight, publicity and delivery.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Dept of Transport has deposited some documents today which provide backup to the justification to cancel the Eastern Leg in favour of upgrades

integrated-rail-plan-for-the-north-and-midlands-technical-annex

With a table that makes convincing case for upgrades over five other options although with Eastern Leg forecast to take another 20 years to deliver hardly surprising.

1643045482142.png

There is also a Mott McDonald analysis of what alternative infrastructure interventions would be needed to deliver the Train Service Specification to destinations off the MML and ECML who won't now benefit from the HS2 Eastern Leg.

strategic-alternatives-to-high-speed-2-phase-2b

Of course what is really needed is RNEP to be updated and released as this will give more clarity about what govt wants the industry to deliver and when.
 

MattRat

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Dept of Transport has deposited some documents today which provide backup to the justification to cancel the Eastern Leg in favour of upgrades

integrated-rail-plan-for-the-north-and-midlands-technical-annex

With a table that makes convincing case for upgrades over five other options although with Eastern Leg forecast to take another 20 years to deliver hardly surprising.

View attachment 109234

There is also a Mott McDonald analysis of what alternative infrastructure interventions would be needed to deliver the Train Service Specification to destinations off the MML and ECML who won't now benefit from the HS2 Eastern Leg.

strategic-alternatives-to-high-speed-2-phase-2b

Of course what is really needed is RNEP to be updated and released as this will give more clarity about what govt wants the industry to deliver and when.
Considering we still have to wait till around 2040 still, does that mean they are trying to tell us a network like the original plan would take us to 2060, or 40 years?!

Meanwhile the new maglev in Japan, with similar if not greater scale will take around tens year. I think we know the real issues....
 

Class 170101

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A fine example of lies, Damn lies and Statistics there I think.

As for the financial figures not exactly credible whether higher or lower than they predict. Clearly the lesson of the WCML Upgrade of the early 2000s have not been learnt!
 

Starmill

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There are some big cuts hidden in the Strategic Alternatives to HS2 Eastern Leg.

The diagram on page 48 implies that Nottingham - Leicester fast services will be cut to hourly, Sheffield or Derby - Leicester services cut to hourly, Newark - London services cut to hourly, and no direct trains between Stevenage, Grantham, or Newark and Wakefield or Leeds. Not good.

What I'm currently struggling to understand is whether through trains between Tamworth or Burton-on-Trent and Nottingham, or between Beeston or Long Eaton and Birmingham could still be available.
 

MattRat

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There are some big cuts hidden in the Strategic Alternatives to HS2 Eastern Leg.

The diagram on page 48 implies that Nottingham - Leicester fast services will be cut to hourly, Sheffield or Derby - Leicester services cut to hourly, Newark - London services cut to hourly, and no direct trains between Stevenage, Grantham, or Newark and Wakefield or Leeds. Not good.

What I'm currently struggling to understand is whether through trains between Tamworth or Burton-on-Trent and Nottingham, or between Beeston or Long Eaton and Birmingham could still be available.
And some not so hidden, like the Birmingham to Leeds train having to play spin the train in Manchester.
 

LUYMun

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Dept of Transport has deposited some documents today which provide backup to the justification to cancel the Eastern Leg in favour of upgrades

integrated-rail-plan-for-the-north-and-midlands-technical-annex

With a table that makes convincing case for upgrades over five other options although with Eastern Leg forecast to take another 20 years to deliver hardly surprising.

View attachment 109234

There is also a Mott McDonald analysis of what alternative infrastructure interventions would be needed to deliver the Train Service Specification to destinations off the MML and ECML who won't now benefit from the HS2 Eastern Leg.

strategic-alternatives-to-high-speed-2-phase-2b

Of course what is really needed is RNEP to be updated and released as this will give more clarity about what govt wants the industry to deliver and when.
Even the Eastern leg proves it provides the highest boost in capacity... Nothing but short-termist mindsets.
 

MarkyT

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And some not so hidden, like the Birmingham to Leeds train having to play spin the train in Manchester.
Not necessarily that time consuming though, although clearly with some risks of the new cab not working, booked relief crew not being in place etc, but those exist in all multi-journey diagrams at termini anyway, although they might not be so noticable by passengers if there were spare trains available nearby to substitute.
 

Mollman

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Dept of Transport has deposited some documents today which provide backup to the justification to cancel the Eastern Leg in favour of upgrades

integrated-rail-plan-for-the-north-and-midlands-technical-annex

With a table that makes convincing case for upgrades over five other options although with Eastern Leg forecast to take another 20 years to deliver hardly surprising.

View attachment 109234

There is also a Mott McDonald analysis of what alternative infrastructure interventions would be needed to deliver the Train Service Specification to destinations off the MML and ECML who won't now benefit from the HS2 Eastern Leg.

strategic-alternatives-to-high-speed-2-phase-2b

Of course what is really needed is RNEP to be updated and released as this will give more clarity about what govt wants the industry to deliver and when.
Meanwhile back in 2016
Upgrades to the existing routes Consideration of options for upgrades to both the East and West Coast Main Lines identified that solving all capacity issues is very challenging. Upgrades within the footprint of the existing network would deliver limited journey time savings, short of the 3-hour journey time aspiration. 4 Achieving a 3-hour journey time to Glasgow and Edinburgh through upgrades to existing lines would require around 137 miles (220km) of new high speed bypasses on the West Coast Main Line. These would cost £17 billion - £19 billion1 and would present sustainability and engineering challenges, similar to those for a new line. Furthermore, on the unimproved sections of the railway, existing challenges regarding capacity, traffic mix, disruption and resilience would remain. Upgrades on the East Coast Main Line, with 150-220km of bypasses, could deliver a 3-hour journey time to Edinburgh, but not Glasgow. This would cost £11 billion - £13 billion without addressing the capacity issues; a solution addressing the capacity issues would cost up to £20 billion. These lengths of upgrades represent approximately two-thirds of the West Coast Main Line and East Coast Main Line routes between Phase Two and Scotland.
https://assets.publishing.service.g...ds/attachment_data/file/506022/NES_Report.pdf
 

WideRanger

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Meanwhile the new maglev in Japan, with similar if not greater scale will take around tens year. I think we know the real issues....
I don't think that's right. The Maglev has already been in construction and development for at least 15 years. I rode the first section of it in 2009.

And it is still a very long way from being completed.
 
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