Changes to industry arrangements for cancelled trains

[yorkie]

Seen this on Twitter from Today's Railways UK, and thought it may be of interest to those on here. One of the benefits of a more joined up railway!

Can anyone confirm this from any official sources? I could not find anything on the DfT website.

Thanks!

Thanks for posting this (and especially thanks for making your post fully accessible by including the text too; I know our blind members/readers do appreciate it!)

It is great news, as there have been occasions when I've been inconvenienced by Northern trains being cancelled; not all TPE staff are accommodating in these circumstances, so it will be great that those staff will have no alternative but to allow inconvenienced passengers to board their trains!

 

[YorkC]

Does this apply to just advances or also operator-restricted flexible tickets (e.g. York-Newcastle has long-standing TPE only off-peak return but is also operated by LNER, York-Leeds has Northern only off-peak day return but is also operated by TPE, etc)? It's a bit ambiguous since all the reporting just talks about the train you were booked on being cancelled.

 

[yorkie]

Does this apply to just advances or also operator-restricted flexible tickets (e.g. York-Newcastle has long-standing TPE only off-peak return but is also operated by LNER, York-Leeds has Northern only off-peak day return but is also operated by TPE, etc)? It's a bit ambiguous since all the reporting just talks about the train you were booked on being cancelled.

It would surely apply to all tickets; however, there does have to be a cut-off stated. When it says "booked on", then for walk-up tickets, you may not necessarily be "booked" on a particular train, but simply intending to catch it, is sufficient.

The reason for a cut-off is that if an 11:00 train is cancelled, you can't then use that as justification for taking a 15:00 train of another operator (unless there was no other service in that time, of course!)

 

[eoff]

Maybe I'm wrong but didn't the previously posted guidelines for TOCs say the alternatives would be from the same operator (with some flexibility if multiple operators were invovled in the trip)?

 

[YorkC]

Does anyone know if there's any actual statement about this? It's quite annoying if it's only been announced by media coverage & not even an official press release, never mind policy statement. I'm travelling with TPE tomorrow & Monday and would rather not have to rely on "I read it in the papers"...

 

[Djgr]

Maybe I'm wrong but didn't the previously posted guidelines for TOCs say the alternatives would be from the same operator (with some flexibility if multiple operators were invovled in the trip)?

Are these guidelines or obligations? Are these even different?

 

[Par]

Does this policy extend to missed connections using two Advances with different operators say Northern and LNER where sufficient interchange time was allowed but late running of the first train means the advance booking for the second was missed, is there an entitlement to take a later train with the other operator?

 

[eoff]

Does this policy extend to missed connections using two Advances with different operators say Northern and LNER where sufficient interchange time was allowed but late running of the first train means the advance booking for the second was missed, is there an entitlement to take a later train with the other operator?

Difficult to say. I'm only a user of the railways and all I know is that in another thread there was a pointer to the smappily titled document from the RDG...

Timetable Comparator Service
Code of Practice
Subject Ref: RSPS1035

https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/doclink/rsps1035-01-00-timetable-comparator-service-code-of-practice/eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJyc3BzMTAzNS0wMS0wMC10aW1ldGFibGUtY29tcGFyYXRvci1zZXJ2aWNlLWNvZGUtb2YtcHJhY3RpY2UiLCJpYXQiOjE3MjQzMjA0NDQsImV4cCI6MTcyNDQwNjg0NH0.cDC-hHw1zTiGzT0CvbPAJjtqusThIU2FWwstXFsE0dM

This seems to be a code of practice for TOCs to follow in setting policy, but as to the status of this document (is there a newer/final one) and how it gets implemented in policy of individual TOCs I don't know.
That document mentions multi-operator trips.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does this policy extend to missed connections using two Advances with different operators say Northern and LNER where sufficient interchange time was allowed but late running of the first train means the advance booking for the second was missed, is there an entitlement to take a later train with the other operator?

Your rights with a split are the same as a through ticket, though this is probably easier to pursue if it was sold as part of one itinerary,

 

[Watershed]

Are these guidelines or obligations? Are these even different?

If affected passengers' delay is expected to be an hour or less, the PRO doesn't kick in so it is purely a question of rail industry policy (i.e. guidelines).

Once the expected delay exceeds an hour, the PRO gives passengers the right to require re-routing at the earliest opportunity, which is generally interpreted as including any (faster) alternatives involving other operators' services.

This new policy is more generous than the PRO requires in some respects, and still non-compliant in others - although if the matter were to come under legal scrutiny, operators would no doubt claim this was merely a "goodwill" policy and that they would abide by their PRO obligations if requested... (As if!)

 

[ainsworth74]

Does this policy extend to missed connections using two Advances with different operators say Northern and LNER where sufficient interchange time was allowed but late running of the first train means the advance booking for the second was missed, is there an entitlement to take a later train with the other operator?

This policy doesn't really apply to that scenario. The situation has always been that as long as a valid itinerary is being followed (as you say, sufficient interchange time has been allowed) then in the event you miss a connection on split advances, even where the companies are different, you are entitled to take the next train by the operator of the second ticket without penalty.

There was a phase where this position was doubted by some railway staff (indeed there were some quite vociferous arguments on here about it) but it was explicitly clarified over a decade or so ago now.

 

[Par]

This policy doesn't really apply to that scenario. The situation has always been that as long as a valid itinerary is being followed (as you say, sufficient interchange time has been allowed) then in the event you miss a connection on split advances, even where the companies are different, you are entitled to take the next train by the operator of the second ticket without penalty.

There was a phase where this position was doubted by some railway staff (indeed there were some quite vociferous arguments on here about it) but it was explicitly clarified over a decade or so ago now.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[YorkC]

Does anyone know if there's any actual statement about this? It's quite annoying if it's only been announced by media coverage & not even an official press release, never mind policy statement. I'm travelling with TPE tomorrow & Monday and would rather not have to rely on "I read it in the papers"...

LNER website now states this at https://www.lner.co.uk/support/refunds-compensation-faq/cancelled-trains/

 

[Bletchleyite]

LNER website now states this at https://www.lner.co.uk/support/refunds-compensation-faq/cancelled-trains/

I note in particular that that link:

What should I do if my train is cancelled?



We know this is frustrating and can be confusing but if your train has been cancelled, you can use your existing ticket to travel.
You do not need to change your ticket or buy a new one.
If your ticket is for an LNER, Northern or TransPennine Express train, you can travel on any of those operators between two hours before or two hours after your cancelled train or one of the two trains before or after your cancelled trains, including any connections.
If your train is for another operator, you can use your existing ticket to travel on the same operator either two trains before or two trains after your cancelled train, including any connections.
If travelling on another service doesn't work for you, or you couldn't complete your journey, you are entitled to a full fee-free refund. See our dedicated Cancelled train page for more information.

...says you can go two hours earlier or later, or two trains (if that is longer, I guess). That's a considerably friendlier (and easier to understand) than the original one.

 

[mikeg]

Just on a delayed northern service from Selby to York ex Hull

Guard has stated that we will not make the connection for the TPE service to Newcastle and that due to recent changes passengers may now use their ticket on any TPE or LNER service to Newcastle within the next couple of hours. So it seems the message has gotten across

 

[edgar13]

Am on a TPE from Leeds to Newcastle, running 25L and suddenly became nonstop York to Newcastle

On journeycheck it clearly states tickets are accepted on any TPE/LNER/Northern within 2 hours either side

However guard said he's not aware of any ticket acceptance advised passengers to just catch the next TPE (which is in 1 hour) with no mention of this new policy

 

[mikeg]

Am on a TPE from Leeds to Newcastle, running 25L and suddenly became nonstop York to Newcastle

On journeycheck it clearly states tickets are accepted on any TPE/LNER/Northern within 2 hours either side

However guard said he's not aware of any ticket acceptance advised passengers to just catch the next TPE (which is in 1 hour) with no mention of this new policy

Hmm in that case some must know better than others. I suppose the test will be if we get any inappropriate disputes and prosecutions cases being raised.

 

[Djgr]

Hmm in that case some must know better than others. I suppose the test will be if we get any inappropriate disputes and prosecutions cases being raised.

Is there anyone on this forum who has never been sworn blind to that a perfectly valid ticket is invalid?

 

[redreni]

This is very encouraging, though still inferior to the situation in Germany in comparable situations, where DB's failure to run the train on which you were booked with a Sparpreis ticket means you are treated as having a Flexpreis (Anytime) ticket.

What we now have seems to be much better for those who prefer to travel earlier than booked rather than later than booked, though.

I did find myself shaking my head very slowly, however, when I got to 2.2 of the RDG Code of Practice, which makes it plain (among other things) that when cancellations occur towards the end of the day, making arrangements so that the customer is able to reach their destination is optional. Overall this is actually a very good document by RDG standards. In order to get anything much better than this, I'm sure it will be necessary to do away with RDG.