Changes trains a boundary zones (between NR and TfL products)

[Failed Unit]

Just building onto this thread,

Changing from TL to EL at Farringdon - tap..?

So I went from St Pancras to Stratford via Thameslink and Elizabeth Line, changing between the two at Farringdon. There’s an oyster reader there that says to touch if changing between national rail and EL, which I was, so I did. The reader said “Exit” - so what happens when I now touch out at...

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Since the arrival of Thameslink / EL and the ability to travel directly to many more destinations, some interesting situations have arisen.I was just wondering if the only way is to exit the ticket barriers and come back in?

For example you have a tickets from say Stevenage - London Terminals, today you want to travel to London Bridge. Before Thameslink offered the direct service you would level with your season ticket at Kings Cross, walk over the street and then tap in using your contactless card at St Pancras. Now the train is direct you still need to leave the station to tap in / out.

This is probably not a new issue, changing at Farringdon, the NR ticket isn‘t valid to get there if you are charging onto the tube / EL.

Just wondering what is the best process to ensure that you don’t needlessly need to leave the train or your are not paying for the same part of the journey twice (such as tapping at Finsbury Park before the London Terminal)

 

[JonathanH]

Just wondering what is the best process to ensure that you don’t needlessly need to leave the train or your are not paying for the same part of the journey twice (such as tapping at Finsbury Park before the London Terminal)

The best process is to buy the ticket to London Thameslink rather than London Terminals. I recognise that this isn't always possible.

 

[Haywain]

or example you have a tickets from say Stevenage - London Terminals,

I may be slightly confused by your post but it is important to note that this ticket is not valid at Farringdon, either for finishing your journey or interchanging.

 

[swing]

For example you have a tickets from say Stevenage - London Terminals, today you want to travel to London Bridge. Before Thameslink offered the direct service you would level with your season ticket at Kings Cross, walk over the street and then tap in using your contactless card at St Pancras. Now the train is direct you still need to leave the station to tap in / out.

Just wondering what is the best process to ensure that you don’t needlessly need to leave the train or your are not paying for the same part of the journey twice (such as tapping at Finsbury Park before the London Terminal)

Concentrating on Thameslink (for which I have more experience of), firstly I think it depends if you have a season ticket (eg Stevenage to London Terminals), and how you intend to pay for the additional journey). If you have a season ticket, you'll either need to have already bought an additional ticket to cover the additional journey (in which case I think you can just continue on the train), or if you are using Oyster / contactless, then yes, you need to "start" this journey with TfL on that payment method, so you need for TfL to see you enter the station here, which means you'll need to leave and re-enter.

If, however, you are not using a season ticket, I think the easiest option (which wouldn't apply to EL) would be to get a KeyGo enabled smartcard, which would allow you to travel to either Kings Cross / St Pancras, or continue to London Bridge without worrying, and the backend system should work out the correct fare. A travelcard would be another option, although may work out slightly more expensive than breaking the journey at St Pancras and utilising TfL for their daily cap. Additionally, as @JonathanH said, a London Thameslink ticket would also work. At some point in the future, contactless should be supported at Stevenage giving another convenient option (and is already supported for much of EL).

Concentrating on Thameslink (for which I have more experience of), firstly I think it depends if you have a season ticket (eg Stevenage to London Terminals), and how you intend to pay for the additional journey). If you have a season ticket...

Actually, thinking about it, I think I missed an option here. If you have a GTR smartcard with a season ticket (Stevenage to London Terminals) loaded, and the smartcard also has KeyGo (GTR PAYG) enabled, I think the KeyGo element would allow you to continue at St Pancras and leave at London Bridge, and just be charged for the journey beyond the season ticket. So that's another way to travel beyond the season ticket without needed to leave / re-enter, although if you are planning multiple TfL Z1-2 journeys, it may not be the cheapest overall solution. As this relies upon KeyGo, this also isn't applicable to the Elizabeth Line.

 

[Failed Unit]

I may be slightly confused by your post but it is important to note that this ticket is not valid at Farringdon, either for finishing your journey or interchanging.

Yep. In the past I would have done the interchange at Kings Cross. Now I still change at St Pancras and walk to the tube. So really I was seeing if there was a way to do the change at Farringdon. (Or if changing at Finsbury Park) avoid getting a zone 2 charge for tapping in.

My understanding is the London Thameslink ticket (which mine isn’t) is also not valid to interchange at Farringdon unless my destination is Moorgate.

 

[JonathanH]

My understanding is the London Thameslink ticket (which mine isn’t) is also not valid to interchange at Farringdon unless my destination is Moorgate.

The London Thameslink ticket is valid for a journey which ends at Farringdon, at which point there are readers on the platforms to touch in to go elsewhere.

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Tickets to or from London Thameslink

If your ticket shows London Thameslink, you can find more information on routes and validity on the Thameslink website. The below diagrams may help with understanding which stations from the north or the south a 'London Thameslink' or 'London Terminals' ticket is valid to.

(Picture shows Old Street and Moorgate needing London Terminals tickets, Kings Cross and St Pancras being either London Terminals or London Thameslink, and Farringdon, City Thameslink, Blackfriars, London Bridge and Elephant and Castle needing London Thameslink tickets)

 

[Failed Unit]

Thank you - I didn’t realise that Farringdon was valid for the Thameslink ticket, I always thought I needed a U1 for that station. That is very useful to now as actually it makes a London Thameslink ticket a more attractive option when I next renew. (I often end my journey there and had being buying a zone 1 ticket from Kings Cross previously) Maybe it was always part of the Thameslink grouping, but for whatever reason I thought it wasn’t and even used to use City Thameslink and walk back whenever I had a Thameslink ticket.

 

[Somewhere]

Thank you - I didn’t realise that Farringdon was valid for the Thameslink ticket, I always thought I needed a U1 for that station. That is very useful to now as actually it makes a London Thameslink ticket a more attractive option when I next renew. (I often end my journey there and had being buying a zone 1 ticket from Kings Cross previously) Maybe it was always part of the Thameslink grouping, but for whatever reason I thought it wasn’t and even used to use City Thameslink and walk back whenever I had a Thameslink ticket.

Farringdon is the point at which a London Terminals ticket is not valid to, rather than a London Thameslink ticket. The furthest you can use a London Terminals ticket to coming from the south is City Thameslink, or St Pancras from the north.
I'm not sure what tickets you can get from the south these days, but it used to be a point to point ticket to Farringdon or St Pancras (or a Zone U1 ticket)

 

[CyrusWuff]

Farringdon is the point at which a London Terminals ticket is not valid to, rather than a London Thameslink ticket. The furthest you can use a London Terminals ticket to coming from the south is City Thameslink, or St Pancras from the north.
I'm not sure what tickets you can get from the south these days, but it used to be a point to point ticket to Farringdon or St Pancras (or a Zone U1 ticket)

Looking at Brighton to Farringdon both point-to-point and London Thameslink fares are available, and priced identically.

 

[Watershed]

Farringdon is the point at which a London Terminals ticket is not valid to, rather than a London Thameslink ticket. The furthest you can use a London Terminals ticket to coming from the south is City Thameslink, or St Pancras from the north.
I'm not sure what tickets you can get from the south these days, but it used to be a point to point ticket to Farringdon or St Pancras (or a Zone U1 ticket)

London Thameslink tickets are valid for travel to any of the stations between St Pancras and London Bridge / Elephant & Castle (inclusive), regardless of which direction you're coming from. (In some cases they may also be valid to other stations but that's another matter)

From many stations there are also point-to-point fares issued to specific stations in the Thameslink core.