Changing to tfl at East Croydon

[EABowden]

Hi all

I was looking at this old thread and have a similar question...

Confusion regarding pink readers

Note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/i-was-detained-and-reported-for-my-travelling-history.185502/#post-4131830 I have been making similar journeys and its has always bugged me that there are no pink readers at london bridge or east croydon platforms. Many people go from...

www.railforums.co.uk

Going from Brighton to Canary Wharf, it's about £3 cheaper to get a train ticket to East Croydon, leave the station and come straight back in using contactless rather than a train to London Bridge and contactless on the tube to the wharf.

I don't believe they have any oyster readers on the platforms, so is there a way to pay for the tfl fare from east Croydon to Canary wharf in advance?

 

[MikeWh]

so is there a way to pay for the tfl fare from east Croydon to Canary wharf in advance?

If by TfL fare you mean Pay-As-You-Go fare then I'm afraid the clue is in the name. It is PAYG.

You could make even bigger savings, at the cost of a bit of time, by taking a slower train to New Cross Gate, getting the Overground to Canada Water and then the Jubilee line (after touching the pink reader at Canada Water). This avoids zone 1.

 

[EABowden]

Thanks, I understand it's PAYG, but given there are no readers on the platform I wondered if there were another way to pay the tfl fare.

I did look into that zone 1-less journey, but it would take too long and often people can't board the jubilee line at Canada Water because the trains are already full.

 

[island]

I wondered if there were another way to pay the tfl fare.

Simply exit the ticket gates with your ticket from Brighton and re-enter with your contactless card.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Thanks, I understand it's PAYG, but given there are no readers on the platform I wondered if there were another way to pay the tfl fare.

No, there is not.

 

[plugwash]

As I understand it.

When oyster PAYG was first introduced, the overground did not exist and only rail services that had historically accepted underground tickets accepted oyster. TFL wanted to encourage people to switch to oyster so they placed entry/exit readers inside the gateline at some interchange stations so that those people could switch the underground part of their journey to oyster without incurring additional inconvenience.

However such readers have their problems, they can be confusing to passengers, they can be convenient for fare dodgers employing short-faring or donuntting strategies and of course extra infrastructure costs money. There is no way TFL is going to roll out such a thing more broadly just to make split ticketing hacks more convinient. They only reluctantly installed them for the new thameslink<->lizzie interchange at Farringdon.

 

[CarrotPie]

Its not a TfL station, and there's no TfL services from East Croydon so it'll be a National Rail fare.

Ignore that: it is in a PAYG zone and it does have contactless support...

Just leave the gateline and tap back in again.

 

[bakerstreet]

Its not a TfL station, and there's no TfL services from East Croydon so it'll be a National Rail fare

Ignore that: it is in a PAYG zone and it does have contactless support...

Just leave the gateline and tap back in again.

It is relevant that TfL don’t run services to / from East Croydon because PAYG fares from there to Canary Wharf will be rather different than - for example - if travelling from West Croydon.

Eg Peak single fare, via zone 1, including tube, no discount.

West Croydon to Canary Wharf

£3.00 (Default Fare)

£8.40 (Via Zone 1 changing between National Rail and London Underground at London Bridge or Victoria (or Blackfriars, Cannon Street, Charing Cross, Waterloo or Waterloo East)


East Croydon to Canary Wharf

£8.40 (default fare)

£4.60 (via Canada Water pink reader)

 

[akm]

You can understand pax' confusion about terminology when it's extremely common to take an entirely NR journey (within London area) and see a charge from tfl.gov.uk on their bank statement...

 

[JonathanH]

You can understand pax' confusion about terminology when it's extremely common to take an entirely NR journey (within London area) and see a charge from tfl.gov.uk on their bank statement...

TfL are just acting as an agent for the train companies, same as a booking engine would be.

 

[akm]

Yes, I know that, but at least one person (OP!) thinks of it as 'the tfl fare'. I'd wager there are plenty of other people who think the same way.

 

[Joe Paxton]

You can understand pax' confusion about terminology when it's extremely common to take an entirely NR journey (within London area) and see a charge from tfl.gov.uk on their bank statement...

Given that the poster named Somewhere has seemingly deleted their post that sparked this sidetrack of a discussion, perhaps they too realised their comment had somewhat muddied the waters regarding the OP's underlying question (i.e. the ability - or rather the inability - to start or finish a contactless/Oyster PAYG journey via a means other than touching-in or out on a validator).

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Simply exit the ticket gates with your ticket from Brighton and re-enter with your contactless card.

Does that mean having to schlep all the way up the long ramp from the platforms at East Croydon, out through the barriers at the main entrance, straight back in again with the card, and all the way down to the platforms?

Seems to be a right old faff at a rather busy station.

 

[JonathanH]

Does that mean having to schlep all the way up the long ramp from the platforms at East Croydon, out through the barriers at the main entrance, straight back in again with the card, and all the way down to the platforms?

Yes. At least the service is generally frequent enough to do that. If changing platforms anyway, it can also be done at the gateline on the footbridge which may be easier.

 

[EABowden]

Ignore that: it is in a PAYG zone and it does have contactless support...

Just leave the gateline and tap back in again.

I was specifically trying to avoid that.

It is relevant that TfL don’t run services to / from East Croydon because PAYG fares from there to Canary Wharf will be rather different than - for example - if travelling from West Croydon.

Eg Peak single fare, via zone 1, including tube, no discount.

West Croydon to Canary Wharf

£3.00 (Default Fare)

£8.40 (Via Zone 1 changing between National Rail and London Underground at London Bridge or Victoria (or Blackfriars, Cannon Street, Charing Cross, Waterloo or Waterloo East)


East Croydon to Canary Wharf

£8.40 (default fare)

£4.60 (via Canada Water pink reader)

Interesting and a little crazy. I can't get to West Croydon, but thanks for the info

Yes, I know that, but at least one person (OP!) thinks of it as 'the tfl fare'. I'd wager there are plenty of other people who think the same way.

I should have been clearer. I'm aware money will change hands after I've paid tfl for the journey.

Does that mean having to schlep all the way up the long ramp from the platforms at East Croydon, out through the barriers at the main entrance, straight back in again with the card, and all the way down to the platforms?

Seems to be a right old faff at a rather busy station.

You can go up the stairs to the footbridge and there's an exit up there which is quicker than going all the way up the ramp and half way up the train rather than the back (if going up to London), but it's still a faff and means I lose the seat I had at Brighton and have to cram myself back in after getting on and off at East Croydon.

I suspected there was no other option, so I suppose it's whether or not I care to save £3 per journey!

 

[CarrotPie]

I was specifically trying to avoid that.

Which, unfortunately, you can't.

 

[Somewhere]

As I understand it.

When oyster PAYG was first introduced, the overground did not exist and only rail services that had historically accepted underground tickets accepted oyster. TFL wanted to encourage people to switch to oyster so they placed entry/exit readers inside the gateline at some interchange stations so that those people could switch the underground part of their journey to oyster without incurring additional inconvenience.

However such readers have their problems, they can be confusing to passengers, they can be convenient for fare dodgers employing short-faring or donuntting strategies and of course extra infrastructure costs money. There is no way TFL is going to roll out such a thing more broadly just to make split ticketing hacks more convinient. They only reluctantly installed them for the new thameslink<->lizzie interchange at Farringdon.

They had to install them at Farringdon, as the situation was just ridiculous. How they couldn't foresee that I don't know

Given that the poster named Somewhere has seemingly deleted their post that sparked this sidetrack of a discussion, perhaps they too realised their comment had somewhat muddied the waters regarding the OP's underlying question (i.e. the ability - or rather the inability - to start or finish a contactless/Oyster PAYG journey via a means other than touching-in or out on a validator).

I haven't deleted anything. A moderator probably did - although I've had no notice that they have

Ignore that: it is in a PAYG zone and it does have contactless support...

Just leave the gateline and tap back in again.

National Rail fares are on a different scale, even though they're in the PAYG zone. You have TfL fares, National Rail fares and mixed-mode fares which are all charged at different rates
I think the OP realises they weren't clear in their original post, and maybe the term 'contactless fare' rather than 'TfL fare' would have been better

 

[MikeWh]

National Rail fares are on a different scale, even though they're in the PAYG zone. You have TfL fares, National Rail fares and mixed-mode fares which are all charged at different rates

Whilst this is true, it's not the point that the OP was making. They see fares described on the TfL fare finder as TfL fares, as opposed to the National Rail fares for traditional tickets.

 

[Somewhere]

Thanks, I understand it's PAYG, but given there are no readers on the platform I wondered if there were another way to pay the tfl fare.

I did look into that zone 1-less journey, but it would take too long and often people can't board the jubilee line at Canada Water because the trains are already full.

The other way is Overground to Whitechapel then the Elizabeth Line. That avoids the crush on the Jubilee

Whilst this is true, it's not the point that the OP was making. They see fares described on the TfL fare finder as TfL fares, as opposed to the National Rail fares for traditional tickets.

I don't think its clear what point the OP was making. The TfL fare finder describes fares on all three scales, and that's before taking into account traditional tickets

 

[MikeWh]

The TfL fare finder describes fares on all three scales, and that's before taking into account traditional tickets

Agreed, but, the OP was comparing the price of a single ticket from Brighton to Canary Wharf with the combination of a ticket from Brighton to East Croydon and the fares displayed on the TfL fare finder for East Croydon to Canary Wharf. They really aren't concerned with the complexities of TfL fares, NR fares or mixed mode fares.

 

[CarrotPie]

Whilst this is true, it's not the point that the OP was making. They see fares described on the TfL fare finder as TfL fares, as opposed to the National Rail fares for traditional tickets.

I don't think its clear what point the OP was making. The TfL fare finder describes fares on all three scales, and that's before taking into account traditional tickets

Agreed, but, the OP was comparing the price of a single ticket from Brighton to Canary Wharf with the combination of a ticket from Brighton to East Croydon and the fares displayed on the TfL fare finder for East Croydon to Canary Wharf. They really aren't concerned with the complexities of TfL fares, NR fares or mixed mode fares.

Exactly: for "TfL fare", read "PAYG fare". The important aspect is the payment method, not who sets the fare.

 

[Joe Paxton]

...
I don't think its clear what point the OP was making. The TfL fare finder describes fares on all three scales, and that's before taking into account traditional tickets

I found it clear enough the point the OP was trying to make, and from my reading of the thread so did several other posters.

(I do appreciate the difference between TfL rate, NR rate and the 'multi-modal'/ TfL+NR rate - but it was reasonably clear to me the OP was just attempting to work out if there was some way around the requirement to touch-in/out when starting or finishing a contactless PAYG journey.)

...
I haven't deleted anything. A moderator probably did - although I've had no notice that they have

I do find it a bit disconcerting (and potentially confusing) when such things happen.

 

[infobleep]

I was specifically trying to avoid that.


Interesting and a little crazy. I can't get to West Croydon, but thanks for the info


I should have been clearer. I'm aware money will change hands after I've paid tfl for the journey.


You can go up the stairs to the footbridge and there's an exit up there which is quicker than going all the way up the ramp and half way up the train rather than the back (if going up to London), but it's still a faff and means I lose the seat I had at Brighton and have to cram myself back in after getting on and off at East Croydon.

I suspected there was no other option, so I suppose it's whether or not I care to save £3 per journey!

At least you have the option to alight at East Croydon during peak hours.

When I use to have a Guildford to London Zones 2 to 6 season ticket and I needed to go into Central London, unless I left early enough or I travelled on a stopping service taking over an hour, I would have to buy a paper ticket at a higher price than using Oyster. This was due to trains not stopping at Clapham Junction.

If I left early enough I generally didn't need to go into Central London, as I'd join a train at Clapham Junction avoiding it.

The paper tickets are higher to encourage people to use Oyster but I couldn't use that as the trains didn't stop at Clapham Junction

 

[maniacmartin]

As others have said, you have to step back a train. You won’t lose much time as there’s so many trains going from East Croydon to London Bridge (not just those from Brighton but also from Horsham, Caterham, East Grinstead, Gatwick, Uckfield, etc which are all 1 or 2 stops). You will however lose your seat.