Changing trains when unable to buy ticket

[TUC]

On several occeasions when travelling from Wymondham (which has no ticket office) my daughter has been unable to buy a ticket on the train due to the ticket machine being being unable to get the required connection to process her debit card. On these occeasions she has gone to the ticket office at the station where she has changed trains and bought a ticket from Wymondham from there.

However this has been dependent upon her having sufficient connection time to include a visit to the ticket office (i.e. the appropriate amount of time for connections at the relevant station may not be sufficient to also have time to buy a ticket) . If on a future journey there is insufficient time to do this would she be able to buy the full range of tickets, including use of railcards, on the second train? The conditions of carriage imply that this should be possible as it states in condition 3 that where a ticket cannot be bought at the start of the journey it should be bought as soon as reasonably practicable. If there is;
a) no ticket office on the originating station
b) no ability to buy a ticket on the first train and
c) insufficient connection time at the interchange station to buy a ticket

then logically the next train becomes the first opportunity to buy a ticket. However I am slightly concerned that staff on the second train could, rightly or wrongly, not interpret it that way and insist that my daughter paid the full fare.

Is it likely that there would be any such difficulty?

 

[yorkie]

...If on a future journey there is insufficient time to do this would she be able to buy the full range of tickets, including use of railcards, on the second train?...

Well you know my views on this from the Daughter approached by revenue officers on board train thread If it helps put your mind at rest, my opinion has not changed and I've not simply made my opinion up out of nothing, but have based it on the Conditions and it has the backing of someone in a senior position at ATOC.

Not all rail staff agree however I've challenged anyone who disagrees to provide details of the manager(s) who suggest otherwise so that a constructive discussion can take place and I can put the relevant managers in contact with the relevant people to resolve the issue.

I am slightly concerned that staff on the second train could, rightly or wrongly, not interpret it that way and insist that my daughter paid the full fare.

It would be wrong, but there is always the possibility that rail staff will act incorrectly, due to the rules not being adequately made clear to staff and due to insufficient regulation of the industry. For a good example of this, but on a different issue, see Barry Doe's column in the latest edition of Rail magazine.

Is it likely that there would be any such difficulty?

Without knowing which TOC the second train is operated by, I could not even begin to guess the likelihood of staff acting incorrectly. If the TOC is FCC for example, an on-board ticket check is highly unlikely but if one is made, incorrect actions are a strong possibility, based on previous reports from numerous other forum members.

 

[maniacmartin]

My comments are in the thread linked to by yorkie, however if your daughter wants an easy life it may be worth taking sufficient cash for the ticket to avoid the online auth debit card problem.

 

[reb0118]

...............my daughter has been unable to buy a ticket on the train due to the ticket machine being being unable to get the required connection to process her debit card.

The only connection between the card reader (Thyron?) and the PDA is via bluetooth and I have personally experienced very few problems there.

As far as I'm aware the reader only performs two functions 1) verifies that the PIN entered is correct and 2) verifies if the account supports off line transactions.

If the card reader verifies that the PIN is correct then that proves that the reader is working correctly - if the transaction then declines it is because the account MAY not support off line transactions, there are other reasons e.g. the transaction may be over the floor limit, but in most cases it is due to the fact that the card is an AAT (Authorise All Transactions) card.

In such cases it would also be difficult to purchase on board the next train as the equipment issued to train staff is broadly similar. The policy after a declined card transaction is to obtain a name and address, submit a TIR or UFN depending on TOC, and send a bill out to the passenger, crucially minus any administration fee or charge, the passenger would also be advised to contact their bank to discuss why there is an AAT block on their card. In this instance the passenger would be issued with a "zero fare" ticket to allow onward travel

Some train staff are able to contact an automated merchant helpline to obtain an authorisation number to allow the transaction to be processed via the magnetic swipe ~ but this is not always possible due to time constraints, poor mobile phone signal, or indeed the passenger not being the card holder (it never seems to amaze me the number of passengers who tell me that I will have to swipe their card as it will not work in my machine prior to offering the card only to find out that it is not their card at all but a friend or relative's!).

NB the above may not apply to your daughter but it would be wise to confirm with her bank to see if her card is blocked from off line transactions and if so to see if that block can be removed. Otherwise she will have to find alternative methods of payment. I have heard, and note that it is only a rumour, that certain TOCs are looking into whether or not they can process for prosecution any passengers who present cards knowing that they will be declined for fare avoidance.

 

[maniacmartin]

If a passenger is trying to use someone else's card, are you not required to confiscate and destroy it?

 

[reb0118]

If a passenger is trying to use someone else's card, are you not required to confiscate and destroy it?

I thought that was the case. To avoid confrontation we are told not to, however. If we suspect that they are using a family member's e.g. husband/wife then as long as they can prove that they have the same surname & they know the PIN then we can process the transaction.

To be fair I do not think the bank sees it that way.