Chaos on Calder Valley (02/02/2021)

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D6130

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Following heavy overnight snowfall, 1J71, 06 42 Leeds-Manchester Victoria (formed of 195 115) collided with a fallen tree at Milner Royd junction this morning. Terminated at Sowerby Bridge at 07 24. CSL2 incident declared after further fallen trees discovered between Elland Tunnel and Greetland Junction and between Sowerby Bridge and Mytholmroyd. Traffic just starting to move again with 10 42 Leeds-Manchester Victoria looking like it's going to be the first train through on the Up. Edit: this train has now terminated at Halifax, so there are obvioulsy still problems.
 
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Bald Rick

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Chaos, n, a set of complete disorder and confusion.

A little over dramatic, perhaps?
 

D6130

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Chaos, n, a set of complete disorder and confusion.

A little over dramatic, perhaps?
Possibly......I suppose that's the sort of headline the local press would have employed in a non-Covid scenario, as it would have been virtually impossible to operate replacement buses at peak time, given the weather conditions. However, as hardly anyone is travelling at the moment, I doubt that the local press will even hear about it (thankfully!).
 

skyhigh

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Multiple trees down, an attempt was made but currently unable to run replacement transport between Halifax and Todmorden due to the weather conditions. Currently unknown when trains will begin to run again. Advice to passengers is do not travel today, but tickets are valid on TPE.

Was that the first train of the day over that section of line?
No, there was a previous train.
 

D6130

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Given the fact that it wasn't particularly windy last night, the fact that so many trees came down caused by the weight of snow alone does make you wonder about the safety of some of the lineside trees.....although I suppose some of them could have been growing outwith the railway boundary fences/walls.
 

YorksLad12

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Chaos, n, a set of complete disorder and confusion.

A little over dramatic, perhaps?

The lights went out at Leeds Station on the concourse years ago, and the YEP described the scene as being like something from the zombie apocalypse. It was just a bit dark, was all. I think this qualifies as "chaos" if you're a passenger with no train and no replacement bus... but there aren't many of them around these days, so we might get away with it. ;)
 

geoffk

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Too many trees lining the railway nowadays but, as D6130 has said, maybe not all inside the railway boundary. What action can be taken against the owners of these?
 

D6130

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The RAIB report into the collison between an FGW HST and a fallen tree at Lavington about 11 years ago makes interesting reading. There is a link to it somewhere on here, but I can't put my finger on it at the moment. In that case the offending tree had fallen from outside of the railway boundary fence.
 

30907

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Given the fact that it wasn't particularly windy last night, the fact that so many trees came down caused by the weight of snow alone does make you wonder about the safety of some of the lineside trees.....although I suppose some of them could have been growing outwith the railway boundary fences/walls.
Remember it has been a very wet autumn/winter which creates ideal conditions for roots to loosen, even with little wind.
On top of that, the snow fell in quantity over a relatively short time (milk on the doorstep, arrives well before 6, but by 7.30 no trace of footsteps) as far as I can guess (someone may correct me), and appears to be the wet and denser(?) sort rather than the dry stuff we had a fortnight ago.
 

JamesT

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The lunchtime BBC news was reporting on the snow, though they seemed to focus more on roads rather than other transport.
I was struck by the comment that normally they'd be reporting on massive disruption to schools and people getting to work. But the vast majority of people are at home so it's not such a problem.
 

Glenn1969

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I live in Halifax. We had up to a foot of snow fall in 6 hours overnight. All transport is disrupted but first service to get past Halifax towards SOW was slightly delayed 1417 Chester and 1429 Preston. Brighouse line trains have been running all day and a couple of services appear to have run Halifax- Leeds according to RTT
 

gimmea50anyday

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The RAIB report into the collison between an FGW HST and a fallen tree at Lavington about 11 years ago makes interesting reading. In that case the offending tree had fallen from outside of the railway boundary fence.
The 66 that hit a tree and brought the OHLE down at Langley Moor near Durham a couple of years ago was also one outside of the railway boundary. There was a video posted from the drivers cab camera which had also done the rounds on social media but again not sure where this has gone. Given the frequency of services along that stretch of the ECML and the time it can down so easily could have been a VTEC, XC or TPE passenger service that hit it and at close to line speed, after all, this was 2pm when it occurred (I was in a cafe only a few doors down from the bridge grabbing a cup of tea before I picked the kids up from school) so the route was proven, yet an unknown tree fall despite being on the OHLE had neither tripped it or pulled them down and no other warning could have been issued before the train hit it.

Edit:- found it on Twitter, from September 2018. https://twitter.com/johnvarley/status/1043227483385020416?s=21
 
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37424

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I live in Halifax. We had up to a foot of snow fall in 6 hours overnight. All transport is disrupted but first service to get past Halifax towards SOW was slightly delayed 1417 Chester and 1429 Preston. Brighouse line trains have been running all day and a couple of services appear to have run Halifax- Leeds according to RTT
Blimey I don't live very far from Halifax and It was more like 6 inches where I live. Despite the snow I still managed a 5 mile drive to Hospital for my 9am appointment without 4 wheel drive car or winter tyres.

When I worked for a Swedish/Finish company they used to howl with laughter when I told my Swedish Colleagues we had 3 or 4 inches of snow with the usual comment it will be chaos then.

Anybody who has been a regular Rail Photographer for years will note that many photographic locations that were once very good are increasingly overgrown with Trees, I know there is an case for Trees increasing slope stability but presumably there is a balance.
 

gimmea50anyday

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The difference with the conditions between the UK and Sweden, we get a very wet and warm snow which stays very slushy and is almost impossible to get any traction. Overnight it can freeze very easily too. The drier and colder snow they get is quite solid and therefore much easier to drive on, and because they have snow for a much longer period of time they tend to acclimatise their vehicles with suitable snow accessories such as winter tyres, snow chains etc
 

Bald Rick

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I know there is an case for Trees increasing slope stability but presumably there is a balance.

An urban myth (or rural myth!) trees do not improve slope stability.


The difference with the conditions between the UK and Sweden, we get a very wet and warm snow which stays very slushy and is almost impossible to get any traction.

The bigger difference, though, is that in most of Scandinavia it snows, reliably, several times each winter, and (road) drivers are used to it. They also have winter tyres and much better preparation.

Here, in most of the country, it doesn’t. It has snowed here in my part of Hertfordshire twice in 5 years. Drivers aren’t used to it. The reason there’s is chaos on the roads is because unprepared drivers end up stranded or having an accident.
 

philthetube

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An urban myth (or rural myth!) trees do not improve slope stability.




The bigger difference, though, is that in most of Scandinavia it snows, reliably, several times each winter, and (road) drivers are used to it. They also have winter tyres and much better preparation.

Here, in most of the country, it doesn’t. It has snowed here in my part of Hertfordshire twice in 5 years. Drivers aren’t used to it. The reason there’s is chaos on the roads is because unprepared drivers end up stranded or having an accident.
Agreed they don't, but doesn't removing them destabilise embankments more as the roots rot.

In Norway I think you are legally required to fit winter tyres.
 

Bald Rick

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In Norway I think you are legally required to fit winter tyres.

In Sweden and Finland (and a few Eastern European countries) they are mandatory for the winter period, regardless of the weather.

In Norway, Germany and many other countries they are mandatory if it is snowing, or there is the potential for ice on the road. In other words, during winter!
 

37424

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On the other hand I'm in the foothills of the Pennines where snow isn't exactly unknown but yet we have the usual shambles on both Road and Rail year after year.

Winter Tyres ought to be mandatory at least in the north of the country, I used to fit Winter tyres to my BMW on account of Rear Wheel BMW's being totally useless in Snow, however fit winter tyres and the transformation is significant.

More Snow now forecast this weekend
 
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NorthernSpirit

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I live in Halifax. We had up to a foot of snow fall in 6 hours overnight. All transport is disrupted but first service to get past Halifax towards SOW was slightly delayed 1417 Chester and 1429 Preston. Brighouse line trains have been running all day and a couple of services appear to have run Halifax- Leeds according to RTT
Its quite treey between Brighouse and Elland what with Stragsey Wood and Cromwell Bottom local nature reserve bordering the railway. I would have though the trees there would have been a problem as some of us will remember a landslip there back in 2008 which closed the line for a few months, that landslip was caused by the weight of stolen cars and bikes which was dumped in what was called "donkeys ditch" as I once had to retrive my pushbike from there after someone had nicked it.
 

TUC

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Blimey I don't live very far from Halifax and It was more like 6 inches where I live. Despite the snow I still managed a 5 mile drive to Hospital for my 9am appointment without 4 wheel drive car or winter tyres.

When I worked for a Swedish/Finish company they used to howl with laughter when I told my Swedish Colleagues we had 3 or 4 inches of snow with the usual comment it will be chaos then.

Anybody who has been a regular Rail Photographer for years will note that many photographic locations that were once very good are increasingly overgrown with Trees, I know there is an case for Trees increasing slope stability but presumably there is a balance.
The range of topography around Halifax makes a very big difference to snow levels over a short distance. Halifax town centre is 400 ft above sea level. Where we live, two miles from there, it is 1000 ft above sea level.
 
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