Cheshire East council propose 43% reduction in bus subsides

[Amberley54]

According to a BBC reporter there's a number of Cheshire East cabinet members unhappy with the proposal, including council leader Rachel Bailey so it's very likely they'll be changes following the upcoming consultation process.

I have already made my views known, as the Macclesfield Express quoted me on its front page last week!

 

[pemma]

Isn't the 200 service subsidised by the National Trust, Manchester Airport and TfGM in addition to Cheshire East or has that arrangrment ceased ?

Yes the 200 is part funded by Manchester Airport and NT but I would imagine if one party withdraws the others will follow - like we saw with the Chester Rail Link where Cheshire West had to withdraw funding due to a commercial service being registered.

It's actually a bit strange the NT do provide funding for a bus service to Quarry Bank Mill when so many of their attractions aren't well served by buses.

TfGM don't provide any funding and in fact the operator pays TfGM for using their bus stops.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It's actually a bit strange the NT do provide funding for a bus service to Quarry Bank Mill when so many of their attractions aren't well served by buses.

Have the National Trust ever provided finance for transport links to their other sites in the region, such as Dunham Massey, Tatton Park and Lyme Park?

 

[pemma]

Have the National Trust ever provided finance for transport links to their other sites in the region, such as Dunham Massey, Tatton Park and Lyme Park?

Not that I'm aware of but they did provide funding for a short lived Speke Hall shuttle.

 

[Busaholic]

Blanket coverage of all villagers, although desirable, is not sustainable.

Are you proposing euthanasia as a solution?

 

[HSTEd]

I think just throwing monies at certain routes was fine when times were good, but we'll not see those times again. Blanket coverage of all villagers, although desirable, is not sustainable.

At that point you have destroyed the moral argument for providing any subsidised bus service at all.
You have to at least reach blanket coverage or then you get into arguments about why people should be made to subsidise services of absolutely no potential benefit to them.

 

[pemma]

Consultation events on the proposed bus cuts (Poynton and Middlewich have already happened)

Nantwich 19 June 2-7pm Nantwich Civic Hall, Market St, CW5 5DG
Congleton 20 June 2-7pm Congleton Town Hall, 7 High Street, CW12 1BN
Sandbach 21 June 2-7pm Town Hall, High Street, CW11 1AX
Macclesfield 22 June 2-7pm Macclesfield Town Hall, SK10 1EA
Alsager 26 June 2-7pm Wesley Place Methodist Church, Lawton Road, ST7 2RU
Knutsford 28 June 2-7pm Curzon Cinema, Toft Road, WA16 0PE
Handforth 29 June 2-7pm Honford Hall, South Acre Drive, SK9 3HN
Wilmslow 3 July 2-7pm Wilmslow Library, South Drive, Wilmslow, SK9 1NW
Crewe 4 July 2-7pm Municipal Buildings, Earle Street, Crewe, CW1 2BJ

If you're thinking of going make sure you look at the full timetables first: http://www.cheshireeast.gov.uk/pdf/council-and-democracy/consultations/timetable-information.pdf not just the summary document.

 

[daodao]

Have the National Trust ever provided finance for transport links to their other sites in the region, such as Dunham Massey, Tatton Park and Lyme Park?

When I first moved to Macclesfield, there used to be weekend buses from Macclesfield direct to Tatton and Lyme Parks; I presume that these had NT support. There is also a route direct from Macclesfield to Chatsworth House, but I presume this will disappear next year when all funding for Sunday bus services ceases.

 

[gnolife]

When I first moved to Macclesfield, there used to be weekend buses from Macclesfield direct to Tatton and Lyme Parks; I presume that these had NT support. There is also a route direct from Macclesfield to Chatsworth House, but I presume this will disappear next year when all funding for Sunday bus services ceases.

Macc - Chatsworth is subsidised by Derbyshire, not Cheshire East, and, as a result are not affected by any changes that Cheshire East want to make.

 

[pemma]

When I first moved to Macclesfield, there used to be weekend buses from Macclesfield direct to Tatton and Lyme Parks; I presume that these had NT support. There is also a route direct from Macclesfield to Chatsworth House, but I presume this will disappear next year when all funding for Sunday bus services ceases.

I don't think the Tatton one had NT support. It also only ran on Sundays between Easter and the August Bank Holidays and the main 27 timetable leaflet had no mention of the Sunday service - it was always issued on a separate piece of paper, so many people didn't know it existed.

There were two bus stops in Tatton Park (since removed), one just inside the Knutsford gate and the other by the Mansion. If someone had thought logically they could have realised people arriving in Knutsford by train could have connected to the bus to visit Tatton - if they had timetabled the services to connect with the train. Also that a Sunday bus could have been used by church goers if the timings had been more appropriate - the removed stop at the Tatton Park Knutsford gate was closer to St Vincent's church than both the bus station and the Canute Place stop (on the 300 route - which has never run on Sundays.)

 

[radamfi]

Has DRT been considered?

 

[pemma]

Has DRT been considered?

Yes it already exists in Cheshire East in two forms:

http://www.cheshireeast.gov.uk/public_transport/flexible_transport_services/crewe_flexi_rider.aspx

http://www.cheshireeast.gov.uk/public_transport/flexible_transport_services/dg_little_bus.aspx

Both forms would be useless for getting to and from a job with normal working hours, unlike TfGM's DRT scheme.

The consultation also proposes residents in villages like High Legh would be able to book a journey on the D&G Little Bus service after their 'regular' bus services are withdrawn. It also mentions a proposal to no longer allow ENCTS holders to travel for free on those schemes. So not only might a High Legh pensioner be told they must change the day they do their shopping trip (to one determined by Cheshire East), they might also be told they have to pay up to £6* for using the flexible bus.

* The fare is £3 single and the consultation states one option is to offer no discount to ENCTS holders and another option is to offer a reduced fare.

If anyone's a Tatton resident and wants to bring up the proposed cuts with their new MP: http://www.knutsfordguardian.co.uk/...er_McVey_to_hold_drop_in_session_in_Wilmslow/

 

[6Gman]

At that point you have destroyed the moral argument for providing any subsidised bus service at all.
You have to at least reach blanket coverage or then you get into arguments about why people should be made to subsidise services of absolutely no potential benefit to them.

But we have never had "blanket coverage".

 

[daodao]

I don't think the Tatton one had NT support. It also only ran on Sundays between Easter and the August Bank Holidays and the main 27 timetable leaflet had no mention of the Sunday service - it was always issued on a separate piece of paper, so many people didn't know it existed.

There were two bus stops in Tatton Park (since removed), one just inside the Knutsford gate and the other by the Mansion. If someone had thought logically they could have realised people arriving in Knutsford by train could have connected to the bus to visit Tatton - if they had timetabled the services to connect with the train. Also that a Sunday bus could have been used by church goers if the timings had been more appropriate - the removed stop at the Tatton Park Knutsford gate was closer to St Vincent's church than both the bus station and the Canute Place stop (on the 300 route - which has never run on Sundays.)

There was a Saturday service as well from Macclesfield to Tatton Park, which I recall using in 2006, but this was withdrawn when Baker's stopped running the Mon-Sat 27 service. The bus service into Tatton Park had the advantage of saving the significant car entry fee which applies even for NT members.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The consultation also proposes residents in villages like High Legh would be able to book a journey on the D&G Little Bus service after their 'regular' bus services are withdrawn. It also mentions a proposal to no longer allow ENCTS holders to travel for free on those schemes. So not only might a High Legh pensioner be told they must change the day they do their shopping trip (to one determined by Cheshire East), they might also be told they have to pay up to £6* for using the flexible bus.

With shopping in mind, food-wise at least, there is the option for having your groceries ordered on line and delivered to homes in villages such as High Legh and Great Budworth, for somewhat less than the £6.00 charge mentioned above, if you do not have the use of a car.

 

[daodao]

With shopping in mind, food-wise at least, there is the option for having your groceries ordered on line and delivered to homes in villages such as High Legh and Great Budworth, for somewhat less than the £6.00 charge mentioned above, if you do not have the use of a car.

High Legh has a good farm shop, and also the garden centre.

Great Budworth is served by the regular (2 hourly) Warrington Transport bus route 45.

 

[pemma]

There was a Saturday service as well from Macclesfield to Tatton Park, which I recall using in 2006, but this was withdrawn when Baker's stopped running the Mon-Sat 27 service. The bus service into Tatton Park had the advantage of saving the significant care entry fee which applies even for NT members.

The entrance fee is because the park is leased from the National Trust to the council. The entrance fee doesn't apply to pedestrians and cyclists - who can also access the park earlier than vehicles. NT membership allows free entry to the attractions within the park.

 

[pemma]

3,900 responses were received to the bus consultation. The 38 and 78 evening services got the most responses: http://moderngov.cheshireeast.gov.u...rutiny Committee September 2017 - Final 2.pdf

 

[ag51ruk]

3,900 responses were received to the bus consultation. The 38 and 78 evening services got the most responses: http://moderngov.cheshireeast.gov.u...rutiny Committee September 2017 - Final 2.pdf

And yet it's not stopped TSS already removing the evening 78 services from last week - I doubt that we will see those back, people have already had to make alternative arrangements

 

[pemma]

I should just have said the 78 got the most responses as some responses related to journeys/services which weren't part of the review e.g. the 58 service got responses despite not being a subsided service, so some of the 78 comments might relate to daytime services.

 

[pemma]

Final timetables which are to be put out to tender have been published. There's a few timing related changes as a result of the consultation to most services. They've also accepted larger vehicles will be needed on some routes due to the frequency cutbacks. The major changes are the retention of through services to Stockport via Hazel Grove and a new J route which will see the 78 route retained plus a very limited SB and 319 service.

Interesting that 7 pensioners complaining about a lunchtime driver break leaving a gap in service in the 19 route has prompted Cheshire East to take action but ignored concerns about people no longer being able to get to work as a result of cut backs to other routes.

http://moderngov.cheshireeast.gov.uk/ecMinutes/documents/s59198/Combined 2.pdf

 

[pemma]

As a summary these will be what is to go out-to-tender:

Route A Macclesfield - Prestbury (19 replacement)
PVR: 1
Minimum seating capacity of vehicle: 21

Route B Crewe - Nantwich (39 replacement)
PVR: 1
Minimum seating capacity of vehicle: 27

Route C: Congleton - Crewe (42 and 85A replacement)
PVR: 3
Minimum seating capacity of vehicles: 35

(Route D: Buxton and Hayfield services managed by Derbyshire CC so no Cheshire East tender)

Route E Altrincham to Knutsford/Northwich/Macclesfield (27, 88, 188 and 289 replacement)
PVR: 4
Minimum seating capacity of vehicles: 39

Route F Macclesfield to Stockport via Bollington or Kerridge (P1, 11 and 392 replacement)
PVR: 3
Minimum seating capacity of vehicles: 21 and 23

Route G Nantwich services (51, 52, 53, 71,72, 73, 56, 75, 79, 83 and 89 replacement)
PVR: 2
Minimum seating capacity of vehicles: 27

Route H Congleton services (90, 91, 92 replacement)
PVR: 2
Minimum seating capacity of vehicles: 27

Route J Leighton Hospital - Alsager - Rode Heath - Congleton and Sandbach circulars (77, 78, 315, 319 and SB1-SB3 replacement)
PVR: 3
Minimum seating capacity of vehicles: 27

 

[pemma]

Interestingly D&G are to cancel the 32 and SB services from 27 January 2018. Does this mean Cheshire East are bringing the proposed changes forward?

 

[ag51ruk]

Interestingly D&G are to cancel the 32 and SB services from 27 January 2018. Does this mean Cheshire East are bringing the proposed changes forward?

Perhaps they are registering them commercially instead?

 

[pemma]

Perhaps they are registering them commercially instead?

If they are then the routes must be changing significantly for them to cancel the existing registrations.

 

[pemma]

I notice the Prestbury route has a requirement for a 'low decibel' reversing indicator. Do some people in Prestbury not want to hear the sound of a bus going through their village?

 

[johnnychips]

I notice the Prestbury route has a requirement for a 'low decibel' reversing indicator. Do some people in Prestbury not want to hear the sound of a bus going through their village?

Paul?

 

[LOL The Irony]

I think it's wrong getting rid of the 300 night service. There are old ladies who live up by Knutsford Academy that use the bus to go to bingo at The Falcon. They could just reduce it to hourly and have the last bus leave the station at quarter past 9. And the council aknowledged that removing it would have a negitive impact.

 

[pemma]

I think it's wrong getting rid of the 300 night service. There are old ladies who live up by Knutsford Academy that use the bus to go to bingo at The Falcon. They could just reduce it to hourly and have the last bus leave the station at quarter past 9. And the council aknowledged that removing it would have a negitive impact.

I don't get why Cheshire East think it's a case of a 6 day a week evening service or no evening service at all. If they looked at demand they'd see it's inconsistent between different days e.g. on Thursdays it takes a number of passengers from the over ward area to the Lord Eldon for their quiz night.

I've suggested to them before they could run an hourly Knutsford-Longridge-Mobberley-Wilmslow service using a single vehicle in the evening. That way it would part replace the 300 service, as well as providing local connections in to Wilmslow and keeping an evening bus service for some of the smaller villages.

A full circuit in the evening takes 25 minutes, so if you provide an hourly 300 service you'll still have to pay the driver the same as if you are providing a half-hourly service.

 

[LOL The Irony]

I don't get why Cheshire East think it's a case of a 6 day a week evening service or no evening service at all. If they looked at demand they'd see it's inconsistent between different days e.g. on Thursdays it takes a number of passengers from the over ward area to the Lord Eldon for their quiz night.

I've suggested to them before they could run an hourly Knutsford-Longridge-Mobberley-Wilmslow service using a single vehicle in the evening. That way it would part replace the 300 service, as well as providing local connections in to Wilmslow and keeping an evening bus service for some of the smaller villages.

A full circuit in the evening takes 25 minutes, so if you provide an hourly 300 service you'll still have to pay the driver the same as if you are providing a half-hourly service.

That would be a better use of the time and money. And the service to Wilmslow takes about half an hour so you could turn it round at Wilmslow train station. Do a full circuit and there's your hour.