Chiltern ATP removal

[TheDon88]

I'm aware that there were plans to replace the ATP (Automatic Train Protection) system installed on the Chiltern Main Line with Enhanced TPWS (Train Protection Warning System), as the ATP system is facing obsolecence.

I'm wondering if this replacement has started / is ongoing / paused / cancelled. Furthermore, I'm interested to know why ETCS (European Train Control System) wasn't considered, particularly now as sign off has been given to the south end of the East Coast Main Line. I suspect cost will have something to do with the latter?

 

[The Planner]

I'm aware that there were plans to replace the ATP (Automatic Train Protection) system installed on the Chiltern Main Line with Enhanced TPWS (Train Protection Warning System), as the ATP system is facing obsolecence.

I'm wondering if this replacement has started / is ongoing / paused / cancelled. Furthermore, I'm interested to know why ETCS (European Train Control System) wasn't considered, particularly now as sign off has been given to the south end of the East Coast Main Line. I suspect cost will have something to do with the latter?

Its slipped a bit. ETCS wasn't considered as the existing signalling isnt life expired.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

It’s supposed to be happening this year. Probably worth a mention that there have been passenger services running in and out of Marylebone without APT for about fifteen years. The WSMR 67&DVT sets didn’t have ATP fitted, it’s not on the 68s which replaced the 67s nor is it on the 168/3s which are converted class 170s.

 

[CR165022]

168001 and 002 have both had ATP removed already, and 168003 is currently having it removed

 

[TheDon88]

I probably have this wrong but surely ETCS is currently being applied in areas where the signalling is not life expired, like the section on the ECML that is under control of York ROC, but was previously Kings Cross PSB?

 

[Backroom_boy]

I probably have this wrong but surely ETCS is currently being applied in areas where the signalling is not life expired, like the section on the ECML that is under control of York ROC, but was previously Kings Cross PSB?

ICBW but I think the ETCS section you mean is north of the ex King's X psb area and south of the York Roc area; so would be Peterborough and Doncaster PSB sections?

 

[zwk500]

I probably have this wrong but surely ETCS is currently being applied in areas where the signalling is not life expired, like the section on the ECML that is under control of York ROC, but was previously Kings Cross PSB?

The conversion of King's Cross PSB to York ROC was 'ETCS Ready', or effectively stage 0 of ETCS fitment. Most new installations are now, so that migration is easier once it starts in earnest. However Chiltern was resignalled before all the standards and protocols for ETCS were defined, so would need massive modification of the back-end equipment. The Signal heads on the ECML can be recovered (if needed), but the equipment in the interlocking will stay largely as it is, (AIUI, open to correction), it will just send the signals to a different place.

ICBW but I think the ETCS section you mean is north of the ex King's X psb area and south of the York Roc area; so would be Peterborough and Doncaster PSB sections?

AIUI ETCS L2 with signals-away will be in place from King's Cross and Moorgate to south of Peterborough, with ETCS L2 with overlay (so still physical signals) remaining in the station area and up to Stoke Jn (the limit of P'bro PSB) to allow non-ETCS trains to transit on and off the March line.

 

[Backroom_boy]

Will this work close Peterborough PSB, or will it be kept for the non etcs bits?

 

[zwk500]

Will this work close Peterborough PSB, or will it be kept for the non etcs bits?

AFAIK, all of the current Peterborough PSB area will move to York ROC.

 

[Suraggu]

168001 and 002 have both had ATP removed already, and 168003 is currently having it removed

Don't forget 168005 which is currently ahead of 8003 (which is also at Crewe for cab damage repairs) in the program.

 

[CR165022]

Don't forget 168005 which is currently ahead of 8003 (which is also at Crewe for cab damage repairs) in the program.

When did 005 go to Crewe? I know 003 has been there for over a month of so now but I don't recall 005 ever going there. It was in service just last week so I assume it's gone up since then?

 

[Suraggu]

When did 005 go to Crewe? I know 003 has been there for over a month of so now but I don't recall 005 ever going there. It was in service just last week so I assume it's gone up since then?

8005 headed north on Saturday 21st and is due back shortly subject to usual criteria.

 

[JN114]

There is significant hardware required, even for Overlay ETCS L2 (which would be the nearest equivalent to CH-ATP) - predominantly on the signalling/interlocking side but train borne equipment and balises to install as well.

Enhanced TPWS is just more grids, all the trains already have the train borne equipment and TPWS only requires very minor changes to the interlocking

 

[dooton]

168001 and 002 have both had ATP removed already, and 168003 is currently having it removed

Not quite, both have been fitted with TPWS Mk4 and a new OTMR. ATP is still fitted and functional. Currently awaiting date for removal - likely to coincide with the switch off on NR's side. (No confirmed date yet).

 

[CR165022]

165023 has gone to Bristol for the same treatment that the 168s are getting at Crewe