Chiltern Oxford Link completed

[Eagle]

Currently the eventual plan for the service at Kenilworth is 1tph Birmingham New St–Leamington (using the bays) provided by LM, probably EMUs once the line is electrified. In addition to 1 or 2tph XC services probably not calling.

Also it's not possible to speed up the fast London to Birmingham trains like that as they only make one stop between London and Leamington (namely Banbury).

 

[GingerSte]

This item could not have been up for discussion until now due to the Virgin Moderation of Competition issue and the lack of paths through Kenilworth.

Understood.

Does that mean it could be up for discussion in the future? I know a few people in Kenilworth who wouldn't mind a direct link to London.

Re: the lack of paths issue: did I read somewhere that this was part of the NUCKLE scheme and going ahead, or am I just confusing myself now (very possible! )

Currently the eventual plan for the service at Kenilworth is 1tph Birmingham New St–Leamington (using the bays) provided by LM, probably EMUs once the line is electrified. In addition to 1 or 2tph XC services probably not calling.

Also it's not possible to speed up the fast London to Birmingham trains like that as they only make one stop between London and Leamington (namely Banbury).

I wasn't sure on the calling points, I must admit.

I don't imagine the LM service from New Street to Leamington would preclude a Marylebone to Coventry service, if the capacity issues were sorted.

 

[Eagle]

Re: the lack of paths issue: did I read somewhere that this was part of the NUCKLE scheme and going ahead, or am I just confusing myself now

No, it's part of the electric spine scheme and going ahead

Basically current plan, along with putting the wires up, is to get everything south of Kenilworth doubled, leaving only about two miles of single track between Kenilworth North and Gibbet Hill.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

I don't imagine the LM service from New Street to Leamington would preclude a Marylebone to Coventry service, if the capacity issues were sorted.

You will still end up with the West Coast franchise holders (Virgin and LM at present) objecting to the TAA on the grounds of abstraction of revenue and wanting to pay less in premiums to the DfT, if only it was as easy as just providing the services that people need!

 

[GingerSte]

No, it's part of the electric spine scheme and going ahead

Basically current plan, along with putting the wires up, is to get everything south of Kenilworth doubled, leaving only about two miles of single track between Kenilworth North and Gibbet Hill.

That'd be it! :roll: Thanks!

You will still end up with the West Coast franchise holders (Virgin and LM at present) objecting to the TAA on the grounds of abstraction of revenue and wanting to pay less in premiums to the DfT, if only it was as easy as just providing the services that people need!

If only!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

You will still end up with the West Coast franchise holders (Virgin and LM at present) objecting to the TAA on the grounds of abstraction of revenue and wanting to pay less in premiums to the DfT, if only it was as easy as just providing the services that people need!

I would have though the main objector would be XC who currently hold all the rights on Coventry-Leamington.
In any case it will be down to the franchise specs in each case at renewal.
I would have though the extra capacity would be best used by LM (local) and XC (long distance).
Coventry and Leamington both have excellent services to London already.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

I would have though the main objector would be XC who currently hold all the rights on Coventry-Leamington.
In any case it will be down to the franchise specs in each case at renewal.
I would have though the extra capacity would be best used by LM (local) and XC (long distance).
Coventry and Leamington both have excellent services to London already.

Yes accepted but GingerSte was looking for a case to provide a direct Kenilworth to London service hence the various comments.

 

[Chris125]

Yes accepted but GingerSte was looking for a case to provide a direct Kenilworth to London service hence the various comments.

Both Coventry and Leamington Spa have direct services, providing a local service between them should be more than sufficient for the likely demand while giving passengers a choice of Virgin or Chiltern.

Chris

 

[GingerSte]

I would have though the main objector would be XC who currently hold all the rights on Coventry-Leamington.
In any case it will be down to the franchise specs in each case at renewal.
I would have though the extra capacity would be best used by LM (local) and XC (long distance).
Coventry and Leamington both have excellent services to London already.

Apart from the Kenilworth angle (already mentioned by Old Hill Bank), it would also mean increased/real competition between Coventry and London (depending on your views of LM being competition on that route).

If (and it's a big if) the service could make it as far as Birmingham International, that instantly connects a large number of Chiltern towns with Birmingham Airport as well. I know the Welsh trains terminate at International, so I imagine there's a path somewhere to be had between Cov and Intl.

As for XC kicking up a fuss; they are both owned by Arriva/DB. Whether it makes the service more or less likely is difficult to say, but I don't imagine Arriva complaining to the authorities about Arriva!

 

[The Planner]

LOL you couldn't be more wrong, you would expect the Arriva owned passenger TOCs to play ball with DB freight but far from it. Chiltern won't ever be going to Cov or International any time soon, Banbury already has a direct link to the Airport via XC and anyone south of there is more likely to go to Heathrow. The airport is more interested in attracting customers from the North which is why they are backing the mental Whitacre link scheme.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

I think Chiltern would just prefer people to use Warwick Parkway instead of Coventry (and to be fair, it's just as easy to get to as Coventry station if you life in the affluent south of Coventry) and Solihull instead of International.

 

[james60059]

Just an idea, but someone mentioned a Marylebone - Coventry service via Kenilworth, how about doing Marylebone to Nuneaton service instead calling at Bedworth as well??

 

[swt_passenger]

Just an idea, but someone mentioned a Marylebone - Coventry service via Kenilworth, how about doing Marylebone to Nuneaton service instead calling at Bedworth as well??

How do you deal with the crossing conflicts at Coventry? If the sponsors of 'Nuckle' discovered they couldn't do this, (and as previously discussed on a couple of occasions they've decided to build a new Nuneaton bay at Coventry), what do you know that they don't?

 

[Cherry_Picker]

I suspect it is just a bit of cheeky wishful thinking.

If NUCKLE does eventually open, and I'll believe it when I see it, then Bedworth will be a big winner. A half hourly service will be a boon for the area and I read in the report that there is capacity for a train every twenty minutes between Coventry and Nuneaton. Maybe that is something which will happen in the peaks if demand is there for it.

 

[The Planner]

If Cov council find the cash then it will happen, where LM find the extra stock for the extra train is a different question though, especially with Kenilworth chucked in.

 

[transmanche]

If NUCKLE does eventually open

OK, I've seen NUCKLE mentioned a few times, but don't know what it is. Based on the letters and context, I'm going to stab a guess at it being a proposed Nuneaton-Coventry-Leamington Spa service. Am I close?

 

[Eagle]

Yep, but it's now in two pieces due to no paths across Coventry (and changes relating to electrification).

Part one is increasing Coventry to Nuneaton to half hourly, with a new bay at Coventry and new stations at the Arena and in Bermuda.

Part two is a new station at Kenilworth, served by (probably) an hourly New St-Leamington LM service.

 

[transmanche]

Yep, but it's now in two pieces due to no paths across Coventry (and changes relating to electrification).

Cheers Eagle.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Like I said, I'll believe it when I see it. Mind you now Coventry City have been kicked out of the Ricoh Arena it would be bloody typical if the long overdue station finally opened there.

 

[The Planner]

Part two is a new station at Kenilworth, served by (probably) an hourly New St-Leamington LM service.

Initially it will be a diesel Cov - Leamington shuttle.

 

[cle]

Will it be opened before the wires are done?

 

[The Planner]

Dec 16 timetable was mooted.

 

[Andyjs247]

In the last couple of weeks, preparatory works have begun on setting out the Bicester chord. Barriers have gone up and a maintenance/access compound is being established at the end of Gavray Drive. This will be the location of the future Gavray Junction where the new chord diverges from the Bicester -Bletchley route. [Gavray is a village in Normandy and is twinned with Launton (a village nearby to this location)].

Yesterday I managed to take a walk along the footpath which crosses the site near to where the Chiltern main line and Oxford-Bicester-Bletchley lines cross. I'd imagine one of the first tasks here would be to construct the footbridge carrying the footpath over the new Bicester chord - the first photo shows the current route of the footpath which has now been fenced off with metal barriers. The path continues under the bridge in the background which carries Chiltern line. The next photograph shows the alignment of the chord curving to the south east. In the next photos the train is the 1555 BMO-MYB propelled by 67013.

Great to see tangible work on the ground after so many delays!

Elsewhere I've noticed in several places that some low form of plastic fencing has been put up - eg there is some which extends from one side of the Chiltern line down the embankment under the bridge where it crosses the Bicester perimeter road and up the other side. There is more at several locations between Bicester and Oxford. I thought this type of fence might be to stop toads /frogs etc crossing roads and being killed but I'm really not sure what this is for or how it would help on the railway - it can't be more than 50cm / 18" high.

 

[RPM]

Elsewhere I've noticed in several places that some low form of plastic fencing has been put up - eg there is some which extends from one side of the Chiltern line down the embankment under the bridge where it crosses the Bicester perimeter road and up the other side. There is more at several locations between Bicester and Oxford. I thought this type of fence might be to stop toads /frogs etc crossing roads and being killed but I'm really not sure what this is for or how it would help on the railway - it can't be more than 50cm / 18" high.

It is newt fencing. Info on Wikipedia here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newt_fencing

 

[swt_passenger]

Is it temporary 'newt fencing'?

http://www.wildlifefencing.co.uk/pages.php?pageid=2

 

[L+Y]

Is it planned to reopen the ex GCR station at Calvert as part of these proposals?

 

[The Planner]

The tendering for the works has only just gone out so they won't start yet, as for Calvert, no.

 

[jimm]

Is it planned to reopen the ex GCR station at Calvert as part of these proposals?

Calvert is east of Bicester, so near the East West route, nothing to do with this Chiltern project.

There never was a Calvert station on that route in the past either - that station was on the Great Central north-south route, with Claydon, further east, the nearest station on the Bicester-Bletchley route. HS2 is planning to build its infrastructure maintenance depot alongside the East West route near Calvert and has said there could be a staff halt, which could perhaps become a passenger station, but all that's a long way off yet.

 

[Eagle]

Is it planned to reopen the ex GCR station at Calvert as part of these proposals?

That's on the line to Bletchley, so it's part of East West Rail. Calvert is not planned to reopen, but Winslow is.

 

[swt_passenger]

Is it planned to reopen the ex GCR station at Calvert as part of these proposals?

Nothing to do with the Chiltern plans, as jimm has pointed out already.

But also, although the site of the former Calvert station would be on the route from Aylesbury towards Bletchley, which is now confirmed to be reopened to passenger traffic as part the East West Rail (EWR) project, I'd suggest there is no intention whatsoever to reopen a station there.

The EWR project website info only mentions one station to be provided, at Winslow. A second station was proposed for Newton Longville, but it failed to make the final cut. However there seems to be no evidence, even in the earliest reports, that Calvert was ever formally considered.