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Chiltern Oxford stock

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sammyg901

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It's rather a pain for Bicester residents who face a choice of a likely full service that has come from Birmingham at Bicester North or a slow ride in from Bicester Village. Those like myself who bought on the basis of the 2019 timetable are not happy!

Ideally they'd go to the peak (Inc Saturday) Oxfords being 168s Oxford - Oxford Parkway- Bicester Village - Haddenham and Thame Parkway (maybe Princes Risborough) and vv with the inner stations handled by stopping services on the 165s from Bicester North. Morning services from Birmingham could be fast from Bicester North then. But they don't seem to have the stock/drivers/funding to do it so I can't see it happening any time soon

Personally I've switched to Aylesbury Vale Parkway, cheaper car parking and tickets and virtually same journey time
 
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Kite159

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I guess the Oxford - Marylebone services picked up the stops which used to be served by the Banbury - Marylebone stoppers which got axed post Covid?
 

Doctor Fegg

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cle

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I guess the Oxford - Marylebone services picked up the stops which used to be served by the Banbury - Marylebone stoppers which got axed post Covid?
Exactly this. Except that in the counter direction, it takes folks into Bicester Town/Village and into Oxford itself - far more useful than Banbury and I'm sure better used offpeak/reverse.

I would think that longer term 3tph could operate between Marylebone and Oxford.
1 semi-fast which gives Bucks-Oxford connections
2 x fasts (alternating 1 stop before Bicester) to restore the fast Bicester Village, Oxfords Parkway and General journeys.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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I would think that longer term 3tph could operate between Marylebone and Oxford.
1 semi-fast which gives Bucks-Oxford connections
2 x fasts (alternating 1 stop before Bicester) to restore the fast Bicester Village, Oxfords Parkway and General journeys.
Would such a service pattern work okay with the East West Rail services?
 

The Planner

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Exactly this. Except that in the counter direction, it takes folks into Bicester Town/Village and into Oxford itself - far more useful than Banbury and I'm sure better used offpeak/reverse.

I would think that longer term 3tph could operate between Marylebone and Oxford.
1 semi-fast which gives Bucks-Oxford connections
2 x fasts (alternating 1 stop before Bicester) to restore the fast Bicester Village, Oxfords Parkway and General journeys.
Platforming 5tph in the bays at Oxford would be fun with the single lead.
 

cle

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Platforming 5tph in the bays at Oxford would be fun with the single lead.
One must hope that Oxford will continue to get the various things planned for it - the bay becomes a through, another bay to compensate - potential through-running to Cowley or Didcot (or beyond) - but yes, it's tight right now. Time to become a real hub. EWR will go to 4tph soon enough too!
 

The Planner

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One must hope that Oxford will continue to get the various things planned for it - the bay becomes a through, another bay to compensate - potential through-running to Cowley or Didcot (or beyond) - but yes, it's tight right now. Time to become a real hub. EWR will go to 4tph soon enough too!
EWR won't be 4tph anytime soon.
 

cle

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It will get to Bedford before there is a new through platform at Oxford on the east-side, or Cowley happens, I would wager.
 

jimm

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It was, if I recall, actually at the request of the locals, because they didn't want to become an unofficial A34 Parkway (the station is very, very convenient, being just off that road). The infrequent service suits their purpose (if any ever bother using it) and they can drive to Oxford Parkway (it's one of those expensive, posh villages with basically 100% car ownership) if they want more frequency.

(Curious thing: Oxford Parkway is literally right next to the A34 but reaching it from the road is a massive faff via Kidlington - I wonder if they ever intended to add another junction?)

I very strongly suspect 100% of households in Islip have at least one car, most probably two or more, and kids would be able to use their bicycle (Oxford is big on cycling) to reach Parkway easily enough if they wanted (but equally kids mostly seem happy to arrange their lives around infrequent train services in rural areas if not getting a lift in Daddy's Range Rover/Jag). It's that sort of place. You don't move to little villages without being a driver.

To go into Oxford they probably drive to Pear Tree P&R for the frequent service from there.

Have a look at a map. It's quicker to get to from the A34 than Oxford Parkway is, and their village would have become littered with cars parking for free rather than paying at Parkway. Asking for a less frequent service removed that appeal.

(I don't entirely see, pre Parkway, any point in the Water Eaton P&R site, the shortest route to it by road involves passing within about 100m of the Pear Tree site - unless it was just overflow or perhaps avoiding peak congestion at the Pear Tree roundabout by reaching it via Kidlington as I think the signage suggests)

What a lot of nonsense. No one asked for fewer trains to call - Chiltern decided that was what was going to happen.

People in Islip were pretty angry when Chiltern unveiled its planned timetables for the reopening of the line after the redoubling work and construction of the link line at Bicester. The plans cut the number of trains into and out of central Oxford to eight each way, down from the 11 trains each way provided by FGW from 2009 to 2014 with county council support. This change saw custom at Islip double between 2008 and 2012 (up from 14,000 to 28,000 entries and exits per year), as the train was a reliable and convenient way to get in and out of Oxford all day, once the previous gaps in the timetable had been plugged.

Exactly the same reason why so many people from well-heeled parts of West Oxfordshire use Cotswold Line trains between Charlbury, Hanborough and Oxford. It doesn't matter how posh people may be or how many cars they own when you know that venturing to Oxford in a car means you will get stuck in congestion much of the time - even when trying to get to the Pear Tree park-and ride site, as the A34/A40/A44/A4260 junctions area north of the city can get nicely clogged up at peak times.

Water Eaton park and ride was built in part because Pear Tree was operating near to full capacity most of the time, with people struggling to find parking spaces. This has never been the case at Water Eaton, which provides a handy alternative option to park and ride just up the road.

And some people in Islip do bother using the train, with 20,454 entries and exits recorded there in 2021-22 - while the number of trains calling now is back up to the level of the 2009-2014 enhanced timetable.

Looking at the sort of village it is, that's a handful of people.
It's like Shipton under Wychwood tbh.
If Shipton station had a better service, more people would use it. As the service is so poor, people living in Shipton-under-Wychwood and Milton-under-Wychwood (combined population about 3,700), drive to Charlbury or Kingham instead. Honeybourne, further up the Cotswold Line, has several hundred fewer residents but a lot more trains calling, so people there use their local station.
 
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jimm

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And if further evidence was needed that people in Islip do use the trains, and that Chiltern thinks there is money to be earned there, one of the timetable changes from next weekend is....

Islip

  • The weekday 06:47 departure from London Marylebone to Oxford will call at Islip at 08:00 providing an additional commuter time journey opportunity from Islip into Oxford.
  • The weekday 17:49 departure from Oxford to London Marylebone will call additionally at Islip, providing an additional commuter time journey from Oxford to Islip. The train will leave Islip at 17:59 for London.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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And if further evidence was needed that people in Islip do use the trains, and that Chiltern thinks there is money to be earned there, one of the timetable changes from next weekend is....
Good. Might as well, seeing as they’re not running the service as a fast London Oxford express anymore.
 

zwk500

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And if further evidence was needed that people in Islip do use the trains, and that Chiltern thinks there is money to be earned there, one of the timetable changes from next weekend is....
Extra station calls is not evidence of either factor, but evidence that the DfT have decided there need to be extra calls, which may or may not be entirely unrelated to demand and revenue.
 

jimm

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Extra station calls is not evidence of either factor, but evidence that the DfT have decided there need to be extra calls, which may or may not be entirely unrelated to demand and revenue.
Or that Chiltern has told the DfT that it thinks there is an opportunity to earn more money, hence the changes. Do you really think the DfT has enough staff and time to go around looking at traffic at each station and deciding on a minor adjustments like this by itself?

The current Chiltern train service requirement, which only dates back to July, requires nine trains on weekdays from London calling at Islip and going on to Oxford, with 10 in the other direction.

In the current timetable there are actually 10 trains into Oxford, because the first train of the day starts at Bicester Village, and 11 in the other direction, because the last departure of the day from Oxford, running as far as High Wycombe, also calls at Islip - so Chiltern is already providing more calls there than it is obliged to under its national rail contract.
 

zwk500

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Or that Chiltern has told the DfT that it thinks there is an opportunity to earn more money, hence the changes. Do you really think the DfT has enough staff and time to go around looking at traffic at each station and deciding on a minor adjustments like this by itself?
Unless Chiltern have managed to move away from their management contract where all revenue goes to the DfT, what would be their motive to earn more money? And no, the DfT doesn't have enough staff to look into this on traffic adjustments, hence the comment about it being for reasons not related to running a railway effectively. The Member's Bar is where far more of these decisions are made than in DfT franchising sub-committees.

Also, the DfT never had the time or staff to go around deciding on minor adjustments like this yet repeatedly did it anyway.
 
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Have the loco hauled diagrams been removed? Having a look on realtime yesterday and today, there doesn’t appear to be any scheduled workings.
 

SuperLuke2334

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Have the loco hauled diagrams been removed? Having a look on realtime yesterday and today, there doesn’t appear to be any scheduled workings.
There's none to Oxford anymore, but due to the current Overtime Ban there is no loco-hauled out between London and Birmingham.
 

nw1

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I'd guess a two-hourly service to Islip is fine as long as the services are timed to include a London and Oxford arrival in the morning peak and departure in the evening peak. (Edit: I see that the latter has now been provided).
 

nw1

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It's rather a pain for Bicester residents who face a choice of a likely full service that has come from Birmingham at Bicester North or a slow ride in from Bicester Village. Those like myself who bought on the basis of the 2019 timetable are not happy!

I guess the solution is longer Birmingham services (could a mix of 2x168 and LH be used?), rather than speeding up the Oxford services as the latter would require additional stoppers to cover the smaller stations and would result in lost links to Oxford from the intermediate stations.

The new timetable (rarely for a post-Covid timetable, which are mostly an utter mess; LNWR is the other exception) looks quite sensible to me in terms of frequency, though I am sure the trains could be longer. Perhaps also they could reintroduce 6tph with two High Wycombe stoppers an hour, allowing some speeding up of Oxford services closer to London. The natural stations for the Oxfords to focus on IMO are the intermediate stops between High Wycombe and Bicester.

(FWIW, and with the important caveat that I'm speaking as an outsider who has only occasionally used the line, 6tph seemed sensible - two fast, two semi-fast and two slow - though 7tph seemed a little excessive).
 
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12LDA28C

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I guess the solution is longer Birmingham services (could a mix of 2x168 and LH be used?), rather than speeding up the Oxford services as the latter would require additional stoppers to cover the smaller stations and would result in lost links to Oxford from the intermediate stations.

The new timetable (rarely for a post-Covid timetable, which are mostly an utter mess; LNWR is the other exception) looks quite sensible to me in terms of frequency, though I am sure the trains could be longer. Perhaps also they could reintroduce 6tph with two High Wycombe stoppers an hour, allowing some speeding up of Oxford services closer to London. The natural stations for the Oxfords to focus on IMO are the intermediate stops between High Wycombe and Bicester.

I'm sure the trains could be longer, so which services would you propose shortening to allow for these trains to be lengthened? Chiltern matches its stock formations to demand as much as possible and the train planning team constantly monitor changes in passenger numbers to tweak formations and stopping patterns at every timetable change to attempt to ensure capacity is provided where it's needed.
 

nw1

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I'm sure the trains could be longer, so which services would you propose shortening to allow for these trains to be lengthened?
I don't. There should be more stock overall. I recognise that the Government are to blame, not Chiltern, but I'm hoping that post-GE we get a government with, shall we say, a different set of priorities to the current one, including a better attitude to running the railways.
 

12LDA28C

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I don't. There should be more stock overall. I recognise that the Government are to blame, not Chiltern, but I'm hoping that post-GE we get a government with, shall we say, a different set of priorities to the current one, including a better attitude to running the railways.

Hopefully when Chiltern's new units arrive to replace the 165s we will see an increase in capacity across all Chiltern routes.
 

RailWonderer

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Chiltern giving up those 172s was a very shortsighted idea during Covid. WMR have enough 196s and now Chiltern are short. Is there any chance of them getting these 172s back? They won't be getting new rolling stock for another several years at least.

And it's a pity about the ending of Oxford fasts. Up until a couple of years ago I sometimes travelled to Oxford on this route as a 168 is superior to an IET in comfort and cheaper and only took 10 minutes longer. Now GWR is the only serious option as 1h 20 on a 3+2 seating 165 is not appealing at all.
 
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