Chiltern Super Off Peak Day Returns

[RobLawrence]

Hi there
I was in the habit of using Chiltern Super Off Peak Day Returns from AVP/AYL to MYB. I was using with a Network Railcard on weekends and the return fare was a very reasonable circa £11. I seem to recall similar fares existed south of Haddenham on the Chiltern Mainline - and on first inspection those seem to have disappeared too. Have I misremembered the ticket I was using; or have these fares been pulled in the past couple of months?


EDIT: Chiltern came back to me to say that these were removed in September 2021:

 

[Starmill]

In early June and early December 2019 Aylesbury to London had:
Anytime Day Return £36.00
Off Peak Day Return £24.30

January 2020
Anytime Day Return £35.10
Off Peak Day Return £23.70

June 2020
Anytime Day Return £35.10
Off Peak Day Return £25.70
Super Off Peak Day Return £15.50

January 2021
Anytime Day Return £35.10
Off Peak Day Return £25.70
Super Off Peak Day Return £15.50

June 2021
Anytime Day Return £36.00
Off Peak Day Return £24.30
Super Off Peak Day Return £15.90

And today:
Anytime Day Return £36.00
Off Peak Day Return £24.30

So there's definitely been upping and downing for quite a while.

Hi there
I was in the habit of using Chiltern Super Off Peak Day Returns from AVP/AYL to MYB. I was using with a Network Railcard on weekends and the return fare was a very reasonable circa £11. I seem to recall similar fares existed south of Haddenham on the Chiltern Mainline - and on first inspection those seem to have disappeared too. Have I misremembered the ticket I was using; or have these fares been pulled in the past couple of months?


EDIT: Chiltern came back to me to say that these were removed in September 2021:

View attachment 103342

It looks like Chiltern are correct here. The catch is that the Off Peak Day Return costs £1 more this time than the last time there was no cheaper Super Off Peak Day ticket available.

I seem to recall similar fares existed south of Haddenham on the Chiltern Mainline - and on first inspection those seem to have disappeared too.

You're right it does make a day in London from Haddenham & Thame Parkway quite expensive at £28.20 - it's only 60p cheaper than from Bicester North or Village, Islip or Oxford Parkway at the same times, and 70p cheaper than from Oxford. People going from the Bicester, Islip and Oxford areas can get a cheaper ticket by booking in Advance too, unlike people going from Haddenham & Thame Parkway.

 

[londiscape]

Hi there
I was in the habit of using Chiltern Super Off Peak Day Returns from AVP/AYL to MYB. I was using with a Network Railcard on weekends and the return fare was a very reasonable circa £11. I seem to recall similar fares existed south of Haddenham on the Chiltern Mainline - and on first inspection those seem to have disappeared too. Have I misremembered the ticket I was using; or have these fares been pulled in the past couple of months?

Not just you - I was also in the habit of using Marylebone to Haddenham and Thame Parkway super off-peak day returns at a reasonable £19.50, for the last four months I've had cause to make this journey about 2-3 days a week.

Was somewhat miffed (to say the least) when they binned off these tickets and suddenly my day fare went up to £28.20, near enough a 50% increase.

Bunch of bounders. Only saving grace is I won't need to do this journey so often after this month (I hope)!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Always disappointing when a particularly cheap promotional fare disappears, the Anytime Day Return fare from Haddenham and Thame Parkway into Marylebone is an eye-watering £45.30.

And an extra £7.50 to include zones 1-6 travelcard validity.

 

[yorkie]

Train companies like Chiltern don't particularly want or need your custom and the Government doesn't particularly want people to travel by train.

Train companies have a habit of removing good value fares as a way of increasing revenue (this is sometimes referred to as simplification).

Train companies often know where their captive markets are, and which journeys are particularly lucrative, for example rail may have a huge advantage over other modes and/or there may be no other options available (including other train companies).

The good value fares tend to exist where there is competition, either with other modes or within the rail industry or both.

If Chiltern were the only operator to go to Oxford and if there wasn't a good bus service, the tickets from London to Oxford would cost at least a third more than they do today. But there is no such downward pressure on Haddenham & Thame fares, so they can make them just a token amount less than from Oxford. Sometimes companies will go even further and make a shorter journey for a captive market more expensive than a longer journey that has competition.

The result is fares for some journeys being far higher than they should be, or indeed would be in mainland Europe.

If you gave access to a car, it could be worth looking at travelling to an alternative station on another line.

 

[HST43257]

If you gave access to a car, it could be worth looking at travelling to an alternative station on another line.

Although, in the case of Haddenham & Thame Parkway, most will drive to this station - so what is stopping them from going elsewhere? Simply ease of use?

 

[Starmill]

Although, in the case of Haddenham & Thame Parkway, most will drive to this station - so what is stopping them from going elsewhere? Simply ease of use?

Rishi Sunak would vastly prefer people to drive all the way rather than only part of the way, or into the outer suburbs of London if driving all the way is unrealistic or incurs the congestion charge. That way he faces fewer demands to subsidise railway services, and gets to charge you more in fuel duty and VAT on road fuel. And of course the VAT element is proportional, so on the same number of litres sold, his department receives more and more revenue from fuel sales as the retail price rises, just as it has been doing significantly in recent weeks and months.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Essentially, Chiltern's "core" pricing policy appears to be a continuation of what they inherited from British Rail. The NFM64 data also shows fairly reasonable pricing South of Aylesbury on both routes (that on the Amersham route being constrained by TfL fares applying as far as Amersham), with fairly hefty jumps between Princes Risborough and Haddenham, Haddenham and Bicester North, and Bicester North and Kings Sutton.

The modern constraint for the Haddenham - Oxford arc seems to be GWR's pricing for the Didcot Parkway - Bicester Village (via Oxford) arc. As an aside, Chiltern don't have a London - Oxford "via High Wycombe" flow, it's a straight ORCATS raid from GWR.

• London Terminals - Didcot Parkway Off-Peak Day Return (CDR) is £28.90, Off-Peak Return (SVR) is £31.40 and Anytime Day Return (SDR) is £70.30
• London Terminals - Appleford CDR is £28.90, SVR is £31.50 and SDR is £70.30
• London Terminals - Culham CDR is £28.90, SVR is £31.50 and SDR is £70.30
• London Terminals - Radley CDR is £28.90, SVR is £31.40 and SDR is £70.30
• London Terminals - Oxford CDR is £28.90, SVR is £31.40 and SDR is £70.30
• London Terminals - Oxford Parkway CDR is £28.80, SVR is £31.30 and SDR is £50.30
• London Terminals - Islip CDR is £28.80 on Chiltern (route via High Wycombe) or £28.90 via Oxford (Any Permitted), SVR is £31.30 or £31.50 and SDR is £50.30 or £70.30
• London Terminals - Bicester Village CDR is £28.80 or £28.90, SVR is £31.20 or £31.50 and SDR is £48.80 or £70.30
• London Terminals - Haddenham & Thame Parkway CDR is £28.20, SVR is £31.10 and SDR is £45.30

Doesn't really explain the £4 jump (£11 for the SDR) between the London - Princes Risborough and London - Haddenham & Thame Parkway fares, beyond "because that's how it's always been".

 

[kieron]

One factor may be that an Aylesbury-London ticket is valid via Princes Risborough (and vice versa), but Haddenham & Thame Parkway is extra. You can buy a return between Haddenham & Princes Risborough for £4 (£3.80 off peak), but a lot of trains skip one station or the other.

 

[Starmill]

Doesn't really explain the £4 jump (£11 for the SDR) between the London - Princes Risborough and London - Haddenham & Thame Parkway fares, beyond "because that's how it's always been".

And because quite simply that they think that Haddenham & Thame Parkway's users will pay the higher rate.