Claiming delay repay if one ticket in combination wasn't valid

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by gray1404, 10 Feb 2020.

  1. gray1404

    gray1404 Established Member

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    I've submitted a delay repay claim.

    A to B with TOC A
    B to C with TOC B

    Two tickets held, split point was at B.

    Delay occurred with TOC B. I've claimed delay repay giving details of intended vs actual trains travelled on and listed (with attachments) tickets used.

    However, I've just realised I used the first ticket on TOC A at a time it wasn't valid due to the time of day. This was not detected on the day.

    Could TOC B who I've claimed from reject (or reduce the amount of) my delay repay claim on the basis I used the first ticket at a time it wasn't valid? I am hoping they might not notice the oversight either.
     
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  3. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I would say that they could do a few things:-
    1. Not notice and pay it
    2. Notice and:-
    a. Refuse to pay anything
    b. Pay for the delay as relates to ticket B only as this was a valid journey
    c. Pay it in full and assume you were given permission

    They could also potentially inform TOC A who could:
    1. do nothing
    2. send you a UFN (if they do you'd best pay it)
    3. take further proceedings than a UFN e.g. send you a pre-prosecution letter

    though I would see any further action as highly unlikely.

    I would suggest if they in error just pay for the second ticket to accept that and not appeal.
     
  4. yorkie

    yorkie Forum Staff Staff Member Administrator

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    Without seeing the itinerary and fares in question, it's too abstract for me to think about

    But if you send it all over in a conversation I will post my conclusion here.
     
  5. robbeech

    robbeech Established Member

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    Whilst i'm very passenger focussed (not anti TOC by any means) the answer here is your ticket(s) were not valid for your journey so you're not eligible for delay repay. You've defined your journey and this must stay as your journey, we are disgruntled when TOCs alter the definitions or things to suit them so we should accept we can't do it ourselves.

    In reality, if TOC B pay out the whole lot then it is not your problem, if they pay out only on the second part of the journey (second ticket) it is more likely that they're doing so because of their made up rule about split tickets rather than even noticing that your tickets were not valid for your journey.

    It's incredibly unlikely (i've never heard of a case but i'm not suggesting it has never happened) that they would take any action if they ruled you travelled without a valid ticket, they'd just refuse to pay the delay repay.
     
  6. gray1404

    gray1404 Established Member

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    I think that if they only pay out based on the value of the second ticket (thus ignoring ticket and journey leg A to B) then I will be happy with that as an outcome. I don't think they could refuse the entire claim though as I still travelled from B to C on their train, that was delayed, using a B to C ticket.
     
  7. robbeech

    robbeech Established Member

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    But that is having your cake and eating it. If you made 2 journeys, A to B and B to C then your claim should be part B to C, which if this is a valid claim then they should pay out. But you've claimed for A to C, so your journey (singular) is A to C, which indeed it was, as you've confirmed, which your combination of tickets wasn't valid for. :)
     
  8. gray1404

    gray1404 Established Member

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    The entire combination wasn't invalid though and thankfully there was no actual travel on any of their trains that was invalid. So therefore them only paying out based on the value of the ticket that was valid would be fair.
     
  9. HSP 2

    HSP 2 On Moderation

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    Out of interest what made your first journey invalid, about all I can think of is that the ticket was time critical.
     
  10. gray1404

    gray1404 Established Member

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    The morning time restriction on an Off Peak ticket.
     
  11. robbeech

    robbeech Established Member

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    But again, 14.1 states you can use more than one ticket for your journey. If your journey is A-C then the ticket or more than one ticket as per 14.1 need to be valid. Effectively you are using 1 or more tickets for your journey, so multiple tickets is the same as one ticket and need to be valid. If you had an SOR and an CDR and split at a time when a CDR became valid then this would be a valid itinerary.

    Regardless, its unlikely the tocs will look into it in this much detail and the results ought to go in your favour (be it paying A-C or B-C)
     
  12. gray1404

    gray1404 Established Member

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    Just had a reply. The TOC concerned paid out above and beyond (well above) what they needed to, even with the value of both tickets for both passengers taken into account. Received a very sincere, honest and very human letter from them too.
     

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