Class 158 seating

tramfan208

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Hi everyone, I have a quick question regarding seating in class 158s which seems to vary widely in quality from operator to operator.
In my opinion, the most superior is the seating found in the three - coach Northern sets, which I’ve included a picture of below. Does anyone know what this type of seating is called and can it be found in any other classes?
Additionally, I’ve seen a video on YouTube showing a refurbished GWR example, which appears to contain the same types of seats. Are they the same, or just similar?
Most other 158s I’ve travelled on including TfW and EMT have the very high backed, high density types which I find uncomfortable and make the coach interior feel cramped.
Thanks in advance for any thoughts!
 

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DavidB

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Those are the original 158 and 159 seats. Northern are in the process of replacing them. SWR still has them, and I think some of the GWR ones do. Replaced with different types by all other operators.

For a while a few 153s had them (cast offs following removal from 158s). Think they are all now gone. Not aware of any other classes having them at any point.
 

JonathanH

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Thanks for your replies. Are these what’s known as IC80 seating?
No, IC80 seating looks like this.

The thing which interests me about the original seating in 158s is whether there is a big store of unused frames and panels somewhere as the seats in the units which have seen replacements gradually get concentrated in those fleets which still have the original seats, replacing broken examples. Haven't some of the 158s with GWR carried the original seats, the Compin seats fitted to Southern Electrostars under Wessex, Richmond seats which were spare from Scotland and gone back to the original seats again when GWR standardised on that type?
 
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simon7929

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Northern are replacing their 158 seats with the new style Ironing board type except the 3 cars which are retaining the original seat bases. Only two remain in service with Chapman seats, 842 and 872.
 

DavidB

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Northern are replacing their 158 seats with the new style Ironing board type except the 3 cars which are retaining the original seat bases.
Are they though, or are those going to be done last? They were the first to go through refurbishment before they decided to cahnge the seats - some of them had new seat covers but not sure that they all did.
 

Bletchleyite

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The only other place I've seen them used is South West based 153s where they were fitted second hand having been taken out of 158s, and were awful in that use because they are very low seats and so even an average height person had difficulty seeing out of the very high windows, and children had no hope. Don't know if any are left with them.
 

Neptune

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Are they though, or are those going to be done last? They were the first to go through refurbishment before they decided to cahnge the seats - some of them had new seat covers but not sure that they all did.
I’m not sure what the situation is with the 3 car units going forward but looking inside 158753 this morning with the new moquette seat covers on the original seats they look really smart.
 

DavidB

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The only other place I've seen them used is South West based 153s where they were fitted second hand having been taken out of 158s, and were awful in that use because they are very low seats and so even an average height person had difficulty seeing out of the very high windows, and children had no hope. Don't know if any are left with them.
Think those units ended up with EMT, who replaced them with Chapmans (ex-ATW 158) when they refurbished them.
 

Neptune

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The only other place I've seen them used is South West based 153s where they were fitted second hand having been taken out of 158s, and were awful in that use because they are very low seats and so even an average height person had difficulty seeing out of the very high windows, and children had no hope. Don't know if any are left with them.
No they all got replaced with Richmond seats when refurbished by FGW. The Porterbrook units in the SW had Chapman seats.
 

DavidB

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I’m not sure what the situation is with the 3 car units going forward but looking inside 158753 this morning with the new moquette seat covers on the original seats they look really smart.
Those were among the first ones done, but Northern subsequenntly decided that new seats were needed for the 158s (not sure whether this definitely includes the 3 car ones, but I got the impression it did). They took several trial seats round some of the larger stations to gauge reaction. Of course, in their usual fashion, they ended up not going for the preferred one but for the cheapest, with the caveat that it would be a modified version with extra padding. They are actually much better than I expected, and probably better than the IEP / Mk5a seats, although nowhere near as good as the Grammer tombstones or the Primarius seats fitted by GNER and XC (the latter HSTs only).

Haven't some of the 158s with GWR carried the original seats, the Compin seats fitted to Southern Electrostars under Wessex, Richmond seats which were spare from Scotland and gone back to the original seats again when GWR standardised on that type?
Not been on the GW much for a few years, but as I recall they were then (following the FGW blue refurbishment) a mixture of original and Richmond. That was before the most recent refurbishment, so not sure what they have now.

Incidentally, there is a Mk3 with those seats fitted, although nobody has ever travelled on it with them...
 

Lewlew

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Whilst SWR do still have the original seats, the "refreshed" trains with blue seat covers have a much much firmer seat base than the originals. Not sure if they will soften up over time but I prefer the unrefreshed versions.
 

northernbelle

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The foam that forms the seat cushions gradually wears out and needs replacing. I understand the replacement material is more fire retardant than the original but is less forgiving as a result - in a similar fashion to the seat cushions found on new rolling stock.
 

DavidB

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The foam that forms the seat cushions gradually wears out and needs replacing. I understand the replacement material is more fire retardant than the original but is less forgiving as a result - in a similar fashion to the seat cushions found on new rolling stock.
That's always the excuse, but softer materials are available - e.g. as used in cars, which generally have far better seats than trains.
 

Bletchleyite

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That's always the excuse, but softer materials are available - e.g. as used in cars, which generally have far better seats than trains.
And in some railway seats. While it appears the Fainsa rubbish is the only seating presently certified for 125mph in new stock, there's plenty of better seats in lower-speed new stock (e.g. the FISA LEAN), and a high speed train is not more likely to catch fire than a low speed train, if anything a branch-line DMU is more likely to catch fire than a high speed EMU because of the large diesel tanks underneath. You basically don't get fires in accidents involving electric trains unless from an outside source.
 

SteveM70

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The best seats were always the ones in the middle carriage of the three car sets. Much deeper and comfier than the end cars
 

Bletchleyite

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I can't decide if I like that or not - it's certainly bright. Regarding the ironing boards, weren't they to be fitted on the units that were for Northern Connect services (plus the reservation displays) and not for those used on non-Northern Connect services like Blackpool-York?
 

DavidB

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The best seats were always the ones in the middle carriage of the three car sets. Much deeper and comfier than the end cars
So far as I recall the centre cars came out of different units (TPE?), and were inserted into 2-car sets.
 

simon7929

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The 156s have 3 types of different seats. Four currently, but when the last 156s are all refurbished. Will be three. The original plan was for all the 156s to have the Ironing board type. But that was shelved.
 

DavidB

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I can't decide if I like that or not - it's certainly bright. Regarding the ironing boards, weren't they to be fitted on the units that were for Northern Connect services (plus the reservation displays) and not for those used on non-Northern Connect services like Blackpool-York?
It's the standard Northern seat fabric! At least they have now moved to using moquette- to start with they were using flat fabric which looks tatty within about a month!

My understanding was that the 158s were all being done as they form a common pool, but perhaps there has been a change of plan.

They are also all supposed to be getting USB sockets, but only a handful of them actually have so far.

The 156s have 3 types of different seats. Four currently, but when the last 156s are all refurbished. Will be three. The original plan was for all the 156s to have the Ironing board type. But that was shelved.
What are the four types? Ashbourne, Richmond, Chapman and some which did get ironing boards?
 

fgwrich

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Not been on the GW much for a few years, but as I recall they were then (following the FGW blue refurbishment) a mixture of original and Richmond. That was before the most recent refurbishment, so not sure what they have now.
The Ex Wessex units had the Richmonds (replacing the Compin seats) while the ex TPE units retained their original seats. All have been reseated now with the original type.

No they all got replaced with Richmond seats when refurbished by FGW. The Porterbrook units in the SW had Chapman seats.
There wasn't many - Only 329/369 Had Chapman seats installed either by Central or Wessex, 361 arrived in the South West from ATW having had them fitted by FNW. The rest were Angel units fitted with the awful ex 158 seats.
 

Bletchleyite

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It's the standard Northern seat fabric! At least they have now moved to using moquette- to start with they were using flat fabric which looks tatty within about a month!
Yes, moquette is certainly better. The brightness I was talking about is pretty much exclusive to the 158 seat as it's wide at the top so gets more of the light blue, most other seats narrow at the top so it is more like a bit of highlighting.
 

DavidB

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The Ex Wessex units had the Richmonds (replacing the Compin seats) while the ex TPE units retained their original seats. All have been reseated now with the original type.

There wasn't many - Only 329/369 Had Chapman seats installed either by Central or Wessex, 361 arrived in the South West from ATW having had them fitted by FNW. The rest were Angel units fitted with the awful ex 158 seats.
I would hazard a guess then that the Richmonds from the 158s went in the 153s, and they acquired some original 158 seats to go in the 158s (probably from Northern units which were having ironing boards fitted).
 

fgwrich

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I would hazard a guess then that the Richmonds from the 158s went in the 153s, and they acquired some original 158 seats to go in the 158s (probably from Northern units which were having ironing boards fitted).
That wouldn't be possible I'm afraid as the 153s were refurbished first (All 153s were refurbished in Eastleigh Works, the 158s were done in Doncaster). I believe the Richmonds actually came down from ScotRail once the "Inverness" 158s had been refurbished - Ironically with the much vaunted on here, yet superb Grammer IC3000. Those based at Haymarket retained the Richmonds, installed by NX ScotRail.

The changing of the seats from Richmond & BR to BR only occurred at the recent green refurbishment.
 

DavidB

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That wouldn't be possible I'm afraid as the 153s were refurbished first (All 153s were refurbished in Eastleigh Works, the 158s were done in Doncaster). I believe the Richmonds actually came down from ScotRail once the "Inverness" 158s had been refurbished. Ironically with the much vaunted on here, yet superb Grammer IC3000.

The changing of the seats from Richmond & BR to BR only occurred at the recent green refurbishment.
Ah, right. So have all the GWR 153s now got Richmonds then, including the ones whcih had Chapmans?

I guess the 158 seats must have come from Northern though, unless any had been saved from whoever ripped them out last before that (think that would have been EMT, but that was a good few years ago now).
 

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