I'm afraid you're in a small minority with this opinion. The width of the doors does matter though I agree: wider doors are far better for reducing dwells, and for easier access with luggage/cycles/pushchairs/reduced mobility.
Becuase they are good trains that need a home, and it result in a cascade that would allow older Sprinters to be retired, at least on the EMR.
The numbers game is a nice way of looking at it, but when you boil down to the details it is not exactly great for EMR though is it?
Yes but what happens when the 156s and 158s are life expired and 175s aren’t, assuming that they haven’t done any new electrification?
Presumably more hybrids, either new or based on mid-life EMUs with those being replaced by new build.
You replace them with a new dedicated regional hybrid fleet that can come in, replace the 156/158/170s, and do the job well for 30+ years - rather than an aging fleet that will be life expired within 10 years that offer no significant benefit to anybody using EMR.
If the 175s are to find a new home a niche requiring rolling stock, ideally with an existing Alstom stock operator, might make some sense. I'm unclear if ScotRail might have any such requirement.
I agree with you there. Thus exposes the problem the railways in the UK has, in that niche procurements will ultimatley lead to nowhere being niche enough to rehouse them in future when older fleets are blanket replaced.
That's what l suspected. I had wondered if they could get rid of 156s and dodge a refurb by taking these on, particularly if the lease price was good, but....
Also to mention no end gangways
I can assure you the 175's are a big upgrade compared to a sprinter, plus the reliability issues have long since been resolved.
Well, they cope with 360s.... lol
...and 170s. EMR is a fairly pointless topic as they are replacing all the sprinters with 170s anyway. Scotrail is a possibility but isn't likely.
All of their 156s have been heavily refurbished already so they don't need anything major other than regular maintenance to take them up to being replaced by 2025 or thereabouts. Plus depots across the central belt have been maintaining 156s since the 80s, so know them like the back of their hand which is a value in itself against procuring any half life replacements.
Not sure where you're getting ScotRail as a possibility from given the concrete information we know already, but each to their own I guess.
Are the 769s expected to last long given the complete shambles of their retractioning and performance?
Bad guess.
Blackpool do MAN - Cumbria, Buxton do Mid Cheshire.
See, the more you think about it, the more it would make sense. Although below seems to put the nail in the coffin....
It does make me wonder if there is anyone that doesn't have access to easy replacements like turbostars.....
Why in God's name replace fully functional, albeit aging, EMUs with DMUs? There are far, far better potential options to replace 313s.
Do you know what the North West 175 routes were when they were first introduced? They certainly reached Barrow and Windermere and have more recently reached Chester though not via Mid Cheshire, but has one ever reached Southport or Clitheroe? They is of course no route clearance required for places they have already been, but if the plan for 2tph on the Mid Cheshire line involved TfW 175s, then they may already be cleared through there.
769 reliability is actually improving somewhat. I would give them another 5 years on Southport services. They can last slightly longer than Sprinters given the chance.
New CAF bi-modes, losing their Diesel engines when electrification comes along, are most likely the preferred option for Northern Sprinter replacement, but they will be expensive and can’t be designed or built instantly. It can’t be acceptable to scrap non-BREL era DMUs yet when it’s unacceptable to order more. It must be logical to retain as many 175/185/195s as possible until widespread battery/hydrogen/new electrification materialises. Diesel isn’t obsolete until all the wires are up.
In a perfect world I would agree with you.
Not strictly true when you remove the politics behind these things happening.
They are cleared for that route, and currently go that way with TfW on engineering diversions / route retainers, iirc.
The implications of the proposed recast have nothing to do with tractions is because Less that half the drivers at Chester sign the Cheshire lines route, as it's only in 1 link. TFW did tell the committee it wouldn't be until Q2/3 2023 that all Manchester services could be routed to Manchester via Cheshire lines. It's also Holyhead and Llandudno junction traincrew that would need to road learn the route.
175s have always been on the clc via greenbank since around 2001 when brand new.
