Class 175 to GWR

[Milo T.K]

So saw on rail express that 175s are to head to GWR suggesting 2025 entry to service?

Quoted important sections

GREAT Western Railway is set to take a fleet of 11 two-car and 16 three-car Class 175 diesel multiple units for use in the West of England.
The fleet (Nos. 175001-011, 175101-116) was built by Alstom in 1999-2001 at Washwood Heath and was withdrawn by TfW Rail last year following the introduction of CAF Class 197 DMUS.
RE understands that approval for the '175s' to join the GWR fleet has been granted by the Department for Transport, and now paperwork is being sorted

 

[RailWonderer]

I speculated this would happen a while back and I wasn't the only one although I stated 158s were more likely. The 175s have far better legroom though and will be much appreciated on GWR, allowing the IET fleet more breathing room. And at least GWR maintanance has some experience with 180s with their precedessor FGW so hopefully they know what they're in for reliability wise.

 

[John R]

I speculated this would happen a while back and I wasn't the only one although I stated 158s were more likely. The 175s have far better legroom though and will be much appreciated on GWR, allowing the IET fleet more breathing room. And at least GWR maintanance has some experience with 180s with their precedessor FGW so hopefully they know what they're in for reliability wise.

Weren’t they maintained at Old Oak? How much of that experience will still exist and be easily transferable to Laira?

 

[simonmpoulton]

Thought this was already a pretty much done deal but good to see it finally confirmed and announced, will certainly be a huge upgrade for GWR.

 

[geoffk]

The wording seems to suggest that Cardiff - Penzance will be split at Exeter as Cardiff isn't mentioned. The Article says "based at Laira" but Exeter crews would also be involved if Barnstaple and Okehampton included. All will become clear in due course.....

 

[dgl]

Weren’t they maintained at Old Oak? How much of that experience will still exist and be easily transferable to Laira?

Probably a lot of experience in swearing at the units!

 

[Invincible]

Looking at the class 175 wiki needs a bit of TLC, but cleaning out built up debris is critical.
Should be good replacements for 150s on some routes until battery operation becomes more feasable.

Hope the 175s work a bit batter than 769s which should have released 166s from the north Downs line for Devon and Cornwall.

 

[jamieh27]

I did know the 175s were going to go to GWR for sometime from someone from GWR but couldn't say. Interestingly enough they are also going to run occasionally on the Falmouth line.

 

[Tynwald]

I certenialy know them inside out.

 

[The exile]

Strange that Falmouth is mentioned, but not Newquay, or is the mention of occasional services to Falmouth purely derived from the need to gauge clear them - not needed to Newquay as 800s are already cleared (as in the main line, which is also not mentioned in regard to clearance)

 

[jamieh27]

Strange that Falmouth is mentioned, but not Newquay, or is the mention of occasional services to Falmouth purely derived from the need to gauge clear them - not needed to Newquay as 800s are already cleared (as in the main line, which is also not mentioned in regard to clearance)

Its occasional services to Falmouth, I think the Newquay will be double 150s or maybe 158..

 

[Jrocks]

Its occasional services to Falmouth, I think the Newquay will be double 150s or maybe 158..

158s aren't cleared down the Newquay Branch. Only 150s, 255s (HSTs) and 80x (IETs) are cleared out of the current stock that GW run.

 

[jamieh27]

158s aren't cleared down the Newquay Branch. Only 150s, 255s (HSTs) and 80x (IETs) are cleared out of the current stock that GW run.

Oh I forgot they weren't cleared, not sure if they would or not with 2+4 potentially withdrawing when 175s are in service in 2025/26.

 

[Jrocks]

It would make sense to clear 175s down the Newquay branch incase of a 150 failure. But then again, if Plymouth keep their standby 150 (I dont see a reason why they wouldn't) then they can just use the spare to cover for the failed unit. I very much doubt 158s will get cleared - I don't believe there will be any booked 158 work in Devon and Cornwall once the 175s are fully in. Happy to be corrected if I am wrong!

 

[The exile]

Its occasional services to Falmouth, I think the Newquay will be double 150s or maybe 158..

given the fact that they are end-doored it’s odd they should be being considered for Falmouth which has more of a Metro-like churn as opposed to Newquay where the majority of the traffic will be end-to-end (and where the trains will be going to Falmouth by then anyway)

 

[jamieh27]

It would make sense to clear 175s down the Newquay branch incase of a 150 failure. But then again, if Plymouth keep their standby 150 (I dont see a reason why they wouldn't) then they can just use the spare to cover for the failed unit. I very much doubt 158s will get cleared - I don't believe there will be any booked 158 work in Devon and Cornwall once the 175s are fully in. Happy to be corrected if I am wrong!

158s are occasionally used on the Penzance to Plymouth services.

 

[JonathanH]

158s are occasionally used on the Penzance to Plymouth services.

There is a daily booked diagram for a 158 to Penzance working Plymouth to Penzance services, so not just occasional.

It will be interesting to see whether 158 knowledge is maintained in Cornwall when the 175s come in as the poster above points out.

 

[irish_rail]

There is a daily booked diagram for a 158 to Penzance working Plymouth to Penzance services, so not just occasional.

It will be interesting to see whether 158 knowledge is maintained in Cornwall when the 175s come in as the poster above points out.

I believe the plan is to rid the south west of 158s when 175s come. It doesn't help that Plymouth and Penzance HSS drivers don't sign them so they can be a bit of a headache in that regard.

 

[Jrocks]

Yes, plan is to get rid of the 158s, there is still a booked diagram in the December TT change however from when the 175s start being introduced, 158s won't be used regularly west of Weston.

Long story short, the cascade looks to be the following:

175 replaces HST (withdrawn)
175 replaces 80x (back to HSS work)
175 replaces 150 on Okehampton (for Cornwall Metro)
175 replaces 158 on Barnstaple (for Cardiff Portsmouth services)
158 replaces 16x on Portsmouth Cardiff (for Gloucester/Worcester)
16x replaces 80x on local Gloucester/Worcester (back to HSS work)

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Weren’t they maintained at Old Oak? How much of that experience will still exist and be easily transferable to Laira?

It was the 180s that were maintained (by FGW) at Old Oak, the 175 fleet was maintained (by Alstom) at Chester until the 197s arrived.
The interiors of the two fleets are pretty much the same, but the engines and underfloor equipment are quite different.
Both 175s and 180s had the same FirstGroup interior initially (with FNW/FGW), but the 175s had an ATW refurb and most recently a TfW one.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

It was the 180s that were maintained (by FGW) at Old Oak, the 175 fleet was maintained (by Alstom) at Chester until the 197s arrived.
The interiors of the two fleets are pretty much the same, but the engines and underfloor equipment are quite different.
Both 175s and 180s had the same FirstGroup interior initially (with FNW/FGW), but the 175s had an ATW refurb and most recently a TfW one.

Technically the 175 and 180 fleets were coupler-compatible but I’m not aware of this ever occurring in practice. (Knowing Alstom stock, probably best nobody ever tried!)

 

[anthony263]

Does this mean we could see the 175s back running services in Cardiff I wonder.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Does this mean we could see the 175s back running services in Cardiff I wonder.

And of course TfW staff did servicing and light maintenance on them until recently at Canton.

 

[Lurcheroo]

Does this mean we could see the 175s back running services in Cardiff I wonder.

I think eventually they will do Cardiff - Penzance. Someone can correct me if they know better.

 

[BillStampy]

I think eventually they will do Cardiff - Penzance. Someone can correct me if they know better.

It doesn't mention it, but it wouldn't be surprising to see them return there. As it does mention 80x replacement on Regional Services, which Cardiff - Penzance basically is. Some TfW Staff would probably be fairly baffled to see them again working in passenger service back in Cardiff that's for sure! I'm hoping so. We'll have to see once an official announcement is made, or if it's displayed what exactly they'll do.

 

[Topological]

It doesn't mention it, but it wouldn't be surprising to see them return there. As it does mention 80x replacement on Regional Services, which Cardiff - Penzance basically is. Some TfW Staff would probably be fairly baffled to see them again working in passenger service back in Cardiff that's for sure! I'm hoping so. We'll have to see once an official announcement is made, or if it's displayed what exactly they'll do.

Assuming there is no change in the timetable, the Marches train goes a few minutes before the GWR to Penzance. We could see 197s and 175s sharing the same platform.

How nice it would have been if the handover had been like that...

Also some questions whether the 197s will be in 5-car by then

The 175s are nice trains and I enjoyed them for the years I used them on the Marches. GWR have done quite well with this.

 

[BillStampy]

The 175s are nice trains and I enjoyed them for the years I used them on the Marches. GWR have done quite well with this.

When I looked into 175108 and 002 when they were at Central last Thursday, I just remembered those seats, how reclined they were too! Hopefully GWR keep the seats as comfortable as they can be. I wouldn't mind taking a 175 all the way through to Penzance if they are! Potentially if I take the night riviera at some point, might be a good option! (That's long term though, let's not get into the riviera..)

 

[jamieh27]

There is a daily booked diagram for a 158 to Penzance working Plymouth to Penzance services, so not just occasional.

It will be interesting to see whether 158 knowledge is maintained in Cornwall when the 175s come in as the poster above points out.

I think they will if 175s are going to be used elsewhere like Barnstaple, Okehampton etc.

 

[The exile]

I think they will if 175s are going to be used elsewhere like Barnstaple, Okehampton etc.

Though is it not the case that GWR’s entire 158 fleet is insufficient to cover all requirements on the Severn-Solent services? As that’s where they’re supposed to be heading, there’s not going to be (m)any spare!

 

[Towers]

Yes, plan is to get rid of the 158s, there is still a booked diagram in the December TT change however from when the 175s start being introduced, 158s won't be used regularly west of Weston.

Long story short, the cascade looks to be the following:

175 replaces HST (withdrawn)
175 replaces 80x (back to HSS work)
175 replaces 150 on Okehampton (for Cornwall Metro)
175 replaces 158 on Barnstaple (for Cardiff Portsmouth services)
158 replaces 16x on Portsmouth Cardiff (for Gloucester/Worcester)
16x replaces 80x on local Gloucester/Worcester (back to HSS work)

Be rather a shame if something doesn’t release some 16x back to LTV land, where shortages resulting in canx is commonplace.