Class 175 to GWR

[The exile]

This raises the question now though, Cardiff to Penzance has become quite a well used "intercity" service, has plenty of stops but no changes required, it's almost a victim of its own success

Doesn't necessarily make the use of IETs on it appropriate or even desirable.
Would be interesting to know the destinations of passengers on it travelling from Cardiff and Newport... (and vice versa, of course)

 

[John R]

This raises the question now though, Cardiff to Penzance has become quite a well used "intercity" service, has plenty of stops but no changes required, it's almost a victim of its own success

I took a midday IET service today south from Temple Meads for just the one stop, and the number joining there certainly justified a 5 car set. The seat reservations were also very busy, for lots of different legs from a brief look at them. Mind you, a summer Friday is always likely to be a busy day.

 

[Randomer]

This raises the question now though, Cardiff to Penzance has become quite a well used "intercity" service, has plenty of stops but no changes required, it's almost a victim of its own success

I use it over 30 times a year and multiple colleagues at work do so at least 6 times. Mostly Cardiff - Plymouth. Not huge number but non-railway interested people have commented how much easier the journey is without having to change at Bristol or Exeter for Plymouth. Even journeys like Cardiff - Exeter with a slightly extended journey time are much better than trying to change onto a crowded Voyager at Bristol.

Personally I was hoping for the service to be split at Plymouth rather than Exeter which would preserve a service from South Wales to the 2 biggest cities in Devon. I hope that connections are actually preserved. If anything its a sign that journey opportunities with fewer changes i.e. less time efficient can be popular with travellers rather than the recent emphasis on decreasing journey times.

I'd be interested to know the usage figures for Cardiff - Plymouth vs. Cardiff - Exeter. I can see the diagramming reasons why it hasn't but its a shame it can't be preserved. The current mix of IETs running the whole route and other stock doing partial journeys just isn't as good a service when it was the mainly Castle sets. At least the 175's are a good replacement in terms of passenger comfort.

 

[Towers]

Is there still talk of the 175s releasing some 150s to go off lease? That could put a dent in the ‘additional vehicles’ benefit if the DfT were to get a bit scrap-happy! 70-ish extra coaches (minus the Castles) in the current/recent climate seems incredibly generous.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Is there still talk of the 175s releasing some 150s to go off lease? That could put a dent in the ‘additional vehicles’ benefit if the DfT were to get a bit scrap-happy! 70-ish extra coaches (minus the Castles) in the current/recent climate seems incredibly generous.

No 150s are planned to leave the GWR fleet as a result of 175s coming in.

 

[Towers]

No 150s are planned to leave the GWR fleet as a result of 175s coming in.

Good news!

 

[co-tr-paul]

The only stock leaving GWR once 175 arrive are the Castle sets.

 

[Sly Old Fox]

Another week goes by and still nothing concrete from GWR. Should this thread not be merged with the other in speculative discussion?

 

[WAB]

Another week goes by and still nothing concrete from GWR. Should this thread not be merged with the other in speculative discussion?

Is Class 175 engineers being recruited by GWR not enough?

 

[Snow1964]

That presumably depends on how many IETs are currently diagrammed for non-IC duties. Obviously it's quite a few, but I doubt it's getting on for 20, which is presumably roughly how many 175s will be available for service once the HSTs have been replaced.

I think it nearer 7 or 8 5car IETs will be released (3 on Cardiff-Exeter leg, couple doing full Cardiff-Plymouth, 1 or 2 used on Bristol-Worcester locals, 1 on Cornwall local covering lack of DMUs).

Exeter-Cornwall still uses Castle HSTs, 3 units (or is it 4) each day. Although a few spare sets still exist, even if not in service

So around 70 class 175 vehicles, works out about 12- 16 vehicles releasing HSTs for scrap, around 35 vehicles releasing IETs, and roughly 15-22 for Devon and Cornwall services like Oakhampton (depending on how count spares required)

In practice there are handful of 158 and 16x units (around 10-15 vehicles) semi-permanently out of service, because of lack of spare parts, so assuming these are parted out to keep rest of fleet going then Bristol will only gain a net of about dozen vehicles (to cover enhanced MetroWest and the stock shortages on Portsmouth-Cardiff).

So with GWR growing in the west, by next summer, even if all the 175s are in service, unless there is a massive investment in spare parts for 165x fleet, probably still be capacity problems, and having to use IETs on local services.

 

[Envoy]

Doesn't necessarily make the use of IETs on it appropriate or even desirable.
Would be interesting to know the destinations of passengers on it travelling from Cardiff and Newport... (and vice versa, of course)

They probably can’t work out the true destinations of people as splitting the tickets tends to reduce the fares.

As the service has become more successful - presumably due to the use of better trains, would 3 coach 175’s still be sufficient? (I presume that 2 coach 175’s would be used on the Barnstaple route)?

 

[Jrocks]

They probably can’t work out the true destinations of people as splitting the tickets tends to reduce the fares.

As the service has become more successful - presumably due to the use of better trains, would 3 coach 175’s still be sufficient? (I presume that 2 coach 175’s would be used on the Barnstaple route)?

Should be 3 cars on the Barnstaple route, 2 cars on the Okehampton route and 5 cars on most services between Exeter and Penzance.

 

[irish_rail]

Another week goes by and still nothing concrete from GWR. Should this thread not be merged with the other in speculative discussion?

No. This is 100 percent happening. Driver training is being sorted as we speak and likely to start within the next month or two.

 

[John R]

They probably can’t work out the true destinations of people as splitting the tickets tends to reduce the fares.

As the service has become more successful - presumably due to the use of better trains, would 3 coach 175’s still be sufficient? (I presume that 2 coach 175’s would be used on the Barnstaple route)?

I suspect they would be very heavily loaded for some parts of the journey, such as immediately south of Temple Meads to give an example I’m familiar with.

 

[Armchair Bob]

I've heard that there is a 175 at St Phillips Marsh (105 was mentioned) for training and possibly another at Laira, so things could be moving along now. I don't know whether anyone is able to confirm this.

 

[Xavi]

Should be 3 cars on the Barnstaple route, 2 cars on the Okehampton route and 5 cars on most services between Exeter and Penzance.

Will be interesting to see how much additional usage there is from Okehampton Interchange. The current Okehampton car park is full most days from mid-morning, which may be suppressing demand, and the 2-car 150s are regularly full on arrival at Exeter.

 

[BillStampy]

I've heard that there is a 175 at St Phillips Marsh (105 was mentioned) for training and possibly another at Laira, so things could be moving along now. I don't know whether anyone is able to confirm this.

Pretty sure 175105 is still at Ely and I haven't got any reports of it moving since.

 

[Sly Old Fox]

I've heard that there is a 175 at St Phillips Marsh (105 was mentioned) for training and possibly another at Laira, so things could be moving along now. I don't know whether anyone is able to confirm this.

That is untrue. Latest from GWR is that discussions are still ongoing, there is no firm commitment to bring these trains into service.

 

[Snow1964]

That is untrue. Latest from GWR is that discussions are still ongoing, there is no firm commitment to bring these trains into service.

And doesn't appear to be any commitment to buying enough spare parts in a timely way to put the few semi-permanently out of service 16x back into regular service either (and they are contracted to stay for another 4-5 years minimum)

 

[HamworthyGoods]

And doesn't appear to be any commitment to buying enough spare parts in a timely way to put the few semi-permanently out of service 16x back into regular service either (and they are contracted to stay for another 4-5 years minimum)

The issue isn’t buying, that’s been done, the issue is in the supply process.

This is not just affecting the UK, long lead times for parts are affecting European Rail operators too.

 

[jamieh27]

That is untrue. Latest from GWR is that discussions are still ongoing, there is no firm commitment to bring these trains into service.

They aren't at St. Phillips Marsh only two units have gone to Papworth.

 

[Snow1964]

The issue isn’t buying, that’s been done, the issue is in the supply process.

This is not just affecting the UK, long lead times for parts are affecting European Rail operators too.

That's why I said in timely way
It's fairly obvious if a part has a lead time of 9 months, then order it 10 or more months before expect to need it.

Unless it is a part not expected to fail on any of the fleet in next 5 years there is no excuse for not holding it in stock because will need it at some stage. When they extended the lease they could have planned spares for extra period at same time.

 

[geoffk]

Today isn’t about borrowing 158 units - there are a considerable amount stopped, the same with 150 units. We are not just talking about only 2 or 3 of each class either.

Short formations on Exmouth - Paignton (i.e. a single 150) are becoming the norm now. Many reports of crowding and passengers left behind. Cornwall Metro will require another 150 (or two?). While I welcome the promise of 175s, which I've found a good train to ride on, there's no guarantee that stock will be released to improve 150 availability at Exeter.

 

[RPI]

Short formations on Exmouth - Paignton (i.e. a single 150) are becoming the norm now. Many reports of crowding and passengers left behind. Cornwall Metro will require another 150 (or two?). While I welcome the promise of 175s, which I've found a good train to ride on, there's no guarantee that stock will be released to improve 150 availability at Exeter.

That's my concern, the daily short forms are horrendous, especially at this time of year.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

That's why I said in timely way
It's fairly obvious if a part has a lead time of 9 months, then order it 10 or more months before expect to need it.

Unless it is a part not expected to fail on any of the fleet in next 5 years there is no excuse for not holding it in stock because will need it at some stage. When they extended the lease they could have planned spares for extra period at same time.

The parts in question were pretty much on a ‘standing order’ for supply but suddenly the lead times increased 10 fold so there was a gap in deliveries well beyond the railways control.

 

[Lurcheroo]

The parts in question were pretty much on a ‘standing order’ for supply but suddenly the lead times increased 10 fold so there was a gap in deliveries well beyond the railways control.

Maintenance staff here (TFW) have told me that there are a good number of parts, which do not fail ‘regularly’ and have to be custom made which costs a fortune so having them ‘in stock’ makes absolutely no sense but equally is a nightmare once a unit needs one.

There is apparently also a system that allows TOC’s to see if another TOC has a part in stock and can as it then if they’re willing to sell it.

 

[jamieh27]

Short formations on Exmouth - Paignton (i.e. a single 150) are becoming the norm now. Many reports of crowding and passengers left behind. Cornwall Metro will require another 150 (or two?). While I welcome the promise of 175s, which I've found a good train to ride on, there's no guarantee that stock will be released to improve 150 availability at Exeter.

I am afraid its down to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time also 150261 is going to Wolverton today for Body shell work, 150216 is still up at Wolverton was supposed to be returning this week but didn't.

 

[Towers]

Per

I am afraid its down to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time also 150261 is going to Wolverton today for Body shell work, 150216 is still up at Wolverton was supposed to be returning this week but didn't.

Seeing as the DfT have had a sudden outbreak of generosity, perhaps GWR will be permitted to acquire a TFW 150 or two when the decent ones start coming off lease!

 

[jamieh27]

Per

Seeing as the DfT have had a sudden outbreak of generosity, perhaps GWR will be permitted to acquire a TFW 150 or two when the decent ones start coming off lease!

I don't think they will, TfW 150s are due for a massive overhaul which costs alot of money already 150281 has been to Sims for scrap.

 

[John R]

Hopefully given the comments made about spare parts availability those being scrapped are being pillaged first for anything useful that might be needed by other operators.