Class 230 stock to run fast charge batteries on GWR's Greenford West Ealing route late 2022

[Invincible]

Vivarail It was good while it lasted.

vivarail.co.uk

Vivarail has sent a second set of battery train stock across the Atlantic, as the US looks set to break new ground with the “Pop-Up Metro” concept.

Two cars were shipped to Baltimore on 9 April and will join their sisters in Rockhill Furnace, Pennsylvania, later this month for testing and demonstrations.

The intention is to lease the trains for use in underutilised lines across the US to pursue “Pop-Up Metro” routes, offering lower cost, lower risk, faster starts of rail-based transit services in the Americas...

From other 230 threads, looks like Class 230 stock to run fast charge batteries on GWR's Greenford West Ealing route late 2022 to replace existing DMU stock. Mentioned in the Vivarail press release about US.

There will be a battery bank at West Ealing slowly charging, so no major electrical work is needed. Then when the train arrives at the station it's batteries will fast charge from the battery bank enough to run to Greenford and return, so no diesel engine is required.


From the border line thread 001 will be used, I expect it is currently on a test track with fast charge?

 

[swt_passenger]

Vivarail It was good while it lasted.

vivarail.co.uk

From other 230 threads, looks like Class 230 stock to run fast charge batteries on GWR's Greenford West Ealing route late 2022 to replace existing DMU stock. Mentioned in the Vivarail press release about US.
There will be a battery bank at West Ealing slowly charging, so no major electrical work is needed. Then when the train arrives at the station it's batteries will fast charge from the battery bank enough to run to Greenford and return, so no diesel engine is required.

From the border line thread 001 will be used, I expect it is currently on a test track with fast charge?

This aspect of how it will work has been known for ages and was already covered in a thread here that was closed:

Vivarail chosen for GWR fast charging trial.

Press release text below. Great Western Railway has signed a deal with manufacturer Vivarail to trial new battery-charging technology on its network, paving the way for battery-only trains to run in regular passenger service in the future. The trial, supported by Network Rail, will take place...

www.railforums.co.uk

I guess that thread was left in the general forum because it covers both infrastructure and rolling stock, perhaps it should be reopened?

 

[2192]

Vivarail It was good while it lasted.

vivarail.co.uk

From other 230 threads, looks like Class 230 stock to run fast charge batteries on GWR's Greenford West Ealing route late 2022 to replace existing DMU stock. Mentioned in the Vivarail press release about US.
There will be a battery bank at West Ealing slowly charging, so no major electrical work is needed. Then when the train arrives at the station it's batteries will fast charge from the battery bank enough to run to Greenford and return, so no diesel engine is required.

From the border line thread 001 will be used, I expect it is currently on a test track with fast charge?

A recent Modern Railways article said (as you said) that the traction battery will be topped up at West Ealing briefly whilst the driver changes ends, but that this is insufficient. The battery is quite low at the end of the day. A large overnight charge is needed at the depot as well. The bonus is electricity is cheaper at night than during the day!

 

[D365]

A recent Modern Railways article said (as you said) that the traction battery will be topped up at West Ealing briefly whilst the driver changes ends, but that this is insufficient. The battery is quite low at the end of the day. A large overnight charge is needed at the depot as well. The bonus is electricity is cheaper at night than during the day!

Yes; that was all taken into account as part of engineering exercises. Not sure what the duration of a typical Greenford branch layover is, but off the top of my head, the calculations for a reasonably sized battery charge assume a duration of between four and ten minutes.

 

[Wyrleybart]

A recent Modern Railways article said (as you said) that the traction battery will be topped up at West Ealing briefly whilst the driver changes ends, but that this is insufficient. The battery is quite low at the end of the day. A large overnight charge is needed at the depot as well. The bonus is electricity is cheaper at night than during the day!

I may be confused but as i understand it there will be a large bank of (shore based) batteries at West Ealing being trickle charged from a 650V cable.
When 230001 arrives at West Ealing it stands on a fast charge rail and its on board batteries are charged from the shore based batteries. Theoretically the shore based batteries will be constantly trickle charged from the 650V

 

[D365]

I may be confused but as i understand it there will be a large bank of (shore based) batteries at West Ealing being trickle charged from a 650V cable.
When 230001 arrives at West Ealing it stands on a fast charge rail and its on board batteries are charged from the shore based batteries. Theoretically the shore based batteries will be constantly trickle charged from the 650V

Yes that’s right, but the point is that a 4-10 min turnaround won’t be enough to recuperate all the energy used during a return journey. So the battery will be slowly emptied throughout a day.

 

[warwickshire]

Yes that’s right, but the point is that a 4-10 min turnaround won’t be enough to recuperate all the energy used during a return journey. So the battery will be slowly emptied throughout a day.

Exactly. Also on some journeys at the very best of times. The 165 comes in and goes out within two minutes at West Ealing due to tight turnarounds at the best of times. What we don't want to have is cancelled trains either due to low on batteries.
Other issues are what happens if the power supply is cut to the battery charger or is faulty?
Or rescue procedure if the unit fails?
However yes have the battery units.
But use West Ealing or part of the plasser depot there for the maintenance and spare use of the units. With spares.
Even the Stourbridge Perry Power unit gets swapped over during the day on The Stourbridge Shuttles. Also why not move 196s on to the Bedford to Bletchley. Then send all the 230s over to West Ealing for this battery purpose.
Plus you can have spare units to swap over and have spares for rescue should it fail.

 

[Chris125]

230001 has been spotted on a test run at Bedford, looks like DOO cameras are fitted:

https://twitter.com/jamespilbeam1/status/1578020451624058883

@Vivarail 3 car test bed unit, 230001 is seen at Bedford working a test run from Bletchley as 5Z23 1121 Bletchley T.M.D. to Bletchley. This unit is fully battery operated. Its due to be heading down to London at some point to do testing on the Greenford branch 6th October 2022

 

[Bletchleyite]

196s cannot work the Marston Vale because they are too long. There are 20m platforms with a signal at one end and a level crossing at the other. That is the whole reason why 230s were introduced in the first place - had the platforms been long enough I am certain 2 car 172s from Tyseley would have worked it instead and most of the D stock have gone to the scrapper.

 

[D365]

196s cannot work the Marston Vale because they are too long. There are 20m platforms with a signal at one end and a level crossing at the other.

40 metres, but yes you are right.

 

[matt_world2004]

How would this work if there is disruption forcing the train to remain at greenford will it go flat

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Given that Greenford has 4-rail DC present, would it not make sense to duplicate the charging equipment in the bay platform there too? Obviously that pushes up the cost, but would reduce the chance of the unit becoming stranded with insufficient charge.

 

[Domh245]

How would this work if there is disruption forcing the train to remain at greenford will it go flat

Given the power draw of the train when stationary should be tiny compared to the traction power, there shouldn't be any danger of it running out of charge, it'll just sit there consuming comparatively little running it's lighting, air compressor and other small power circuits before moving away.

 

[D365]

Given that Greenford has 4-rail DC present, would it not make sense to duplicate the charging equipment in the bay platform there too?

I'm more than sure that this will have been considered during the planning phases.

 

[Sm5]

Given that Greenford has 4-rail DC present, would it not make sense to duplicate the charging equipment in the bay platform there too? Obviously that pushes up the cost, but would reduce the chance of the unit becoming stranded with insufficient charge.

I’m still not understanding why this isn't a dual use tube line anyway.

Seem to be creating a problem, to be solved by Batteries, rather than with an existing solution.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I’m still not understanding why this isn't a dual use tube line anyway.

Seem to be creating a problem, to be solved by Batteries, rather than with an existing solution.

What do you mean by "dual use"?

Whilst there isn't the oft-cited outright ban on new 3rd/4th rail installations above ground, the nature of the Greenford branch would probably work against such an installation. Without looking it up it wouldn't surprise me if the area around Castle Bar Park is a bit of a trespass hotspot. It also isn't really suitable for amalgamation into the Central Line, as you'd need a subfleet of 2/3-car sets to shuttle to West Ealing. Sending full-length sets down there is a non-starter as that would be overkill from a demand point of view, and none of the platforms are long enough. The battery 230s are probably the least-worst option, with closure being a distant second.

Also a much more viable use for battery units than any pie-in-the-sky ideas about Basingstoke to Exeter.

 

[RobShipway]

What do you mean by "dual use"?

Whilst there isn't the oft-cited outright ban on new 3rd/4th rail installations above ground, the nature of the Greenford branch would probably work against such an installation. Without looking it up it wouldn't surprise me if the area around Castle Bar Park is a bit of a trespass hotspot. It also isn't really suitable for amalgamation into the Central Line, as you'd need a subfleet of 2/3-car sets to shuttle to West Ealing. Sending full-length sets down there is a non-starter as that would be overkill from a demand point of view, and none of the platforms are long enough. The battery 230s are probably the least-worst option, with closure being a distant second.

Also a much more viable use for battery units than any pie-in-the-sky ideas about Basingstoke to Exeter.

I think by dual use, it is possibly where a class 230 could work on the existing 3rd/4th rail installation on the Underground route then on battery power on the Greenford Branch to West Ealing.

 

[matt_world2004]

I think by dual use, it is possibly where a class 230 could work on the existing 3rd/4th rail installation on the Underground route then on battery power on the Greenford Branch to West Ealing.

It doesn't go on London underground tracks at all

 

[busestrains]

Can a three coach 230 fit on all of the platforms on this branch? I have only ever seen two coach 165 units used so thought the platforms are too short for three coach units? Unless maybe SDO is being fitted and used or platforms are being extended?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I think by dual use, it is possibly where a class 230 could work on the existing 3rd/4th rail installation on the Underground route then on battery power on the Greenford Branch to West Ealing.

There's a long list of issues with that suggestion... for one thing, a 230 wouldn't get very far on Central Line tracks before being turned into a cabriolet!

 

[JonathanH]

Can a three coach 230 fit on all of the platforms on this branch? I have only ever seen two coach 165 units used so thought the platforms are too short for three coach units?

A three coach 230 is about 15m shorter than a three coach 165, that is only 8m longer than a two coach 165.

From Wikipedia
Class 230

Car length
Driving Motor: 18.37 m (60 ft 3 in)
Other: 18.12 m (59 ft 5 in)

Class 165

Car length
DMCL/DMS - 23.50 m (77 ft 1 in)
MS - 23.25 m (76 ft 3 in)

 

[TurboMan]

Can a three coach 230 fit on all of the platforms on this branch? I have only ever seen two coach 165 units used so thought the platforms are too short for three coach units? Unless maybe SDO is being fitted and used or platforms are being extended?

No. SDO is not being fitted, nor are platforms being extended. Instead, the front of the train will stop off the platform, and the leading doors on the driving vehicles have been modified so they're not available for passenger use. So basically the train will hang off the platform at either end.

 

[adc82140]

I presume all this fast charging kit doesn't preclude Turbos still running on the line? The 230 will at some point break down. I'm not being negative, no train is 100% reliable. I'm hoping that they will just be able to sub a Turbo back on to the service.

 

[TurboMan]

I presume all this fast charging kit doesn't preclude Turbos still running on the line? The 230 will at some point break down. I'm not being negative, no train is 100% reliable. I'm hoping that they will just be able to sub a Turbo back on to the service.

Bear in mind this is just a trial. The 16x normally allocated to the Greenfords will sit at West Ealing depot to take over the service if the 230 fails or is unavailable or whatever.

 

[Mikey C]

A perfect place for a trial, but as it's such a short, quiet and frankly unimportant branch, I'm not sure if a successful trial would mean that much in the bigger picture, other than for similarly short branches like Marlow.

 

[zwk500]

A perfect place for a trial, but as it's such a short, quiet and frankly unimportant branch, I'm not sure if a successful trial would mean that much in the bigger picture, other than for similarly short branches like Marlow.

It would go a long way towards proving the concept of battery operation with fast charge, which will have a big impact on the viability of electrification schemes and reducing diesel running over electrified track.

 

[Crossover]

Even the Stourbridge Perry Power unit gets swapped over during the day on The Stourbridge Shuttles

I believe the 139 gets swapped weekly (failures notwithstanding) - not sure how it is relevant to the discussion here though

 

[stan68]

I assume the 230s will not operate the 2G02 0540 Paddington - Greenford or the 2G65 2151 Greenford - Paddington, would this still be operated by 165s?
At the moment after running the Greenford services each day, the unit forms 1D48 Paddington - Oxford, would this continue with a 165?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I assume the 230s will not operate the 2G02 0540 Paddington - Greenford or the 2G65 2151 Greenford - Paddington, would this still be operated by 165s?
At the moment after running the Greenford services each day, the unit forms 1D48 Paddington - Oxford, would this continue with a 165?

I would expect that through-running to Paddington will end entirely. If as suggested upthread, a 165 will remain on standby, that unit can still run into Paddington to form the service to Oxford.

 

[D365]

I presume all this fast charging kit doesn't preclude Turbos still running on the line? The 230 will at some point break down. I'm not being negative, no train is 100% reliable. I'm hoping that they will just be able to sub a Turbo back on to the service.

Yes - the charging rail dimensions are identical to that found on LUL track.