Class 30 or 31?

[norbitonflyer]

Bit of a long shot this, but during the transitiuonal period when the Brush "Type 2s" were having their Mirrlees engines replaced by English Electric (1965-1969), did the two types operate in separate areas or were they a mixture? I have a vivid memory of traveling behind one between Edale and Grindleford in February 1966 but as this was six years before I started collecting numbers I have no idea which one it was, let alone what engine it had inside. (Presumably one of Tinsley's allocation)

In a similar vein, the following year we travelled from Lincoln to Manchester on the "North Country Continental". My imperfect recollection is that it was "37" hauled all the way but most contemporary sources say that an "EM2" would have taken over the service at Sheffield. (We had a tight connection at Piccadilly so I'm not sure I looked at what was on the front). On the way back we got a train from Dinting, which was defintely electrically hauled, and my recollection is that the loco was black, not green, which would have been an EM1 - but could an EM2 have been used on a local service calling at Dinting?

(These train journeys were - for me at least - the best parts of two holidays in which my father tried to introduce me to the so-called delights of Youth Hosteling)

 

[Magdalia]

Bit of a long shot this, but during the transitiuonal period when the Brush "Type 2s" were having their Mirrlees engines replaced by English Electric (1965-1969), did the two types operate in separate areas or were they a mixture? I have a vivid memory of traveling behind one between Edale and Grindleford in February 1966 but as this was six years before I started collecting numbers I have no idea which one it was, let alone what engine it had inside. (Presumably one of Tinsley's allocation)

Up to February 1966 all of the locos with EE power units were allocated to either Tinsley, Stratford or Finsbury Park. By February 1966 Tinsley already had a big fleet of EE powered locos.

In a similar vein, the following year we travelled from Lincoln to Manchester on the "North Country Continental". My imperfect recollection is that it was "37" hauled all the way but most contemporary sources say that an "EM2" would have taken over the service at Sheffield.

Yes, by 1967 the EE Type 3 was working through to/from Manchester.

On the way back we got a train from Dinting, which was defintely electrically hauled, and my recollection is that the loco was black, not green, which would have been an EM1 - but could an EM2 have been used on a local service calling at Dinting?

About half of the Manchester-Sheffield trains via Woodhead called at Dinting.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Up to February 1966 all of the locos with EE power units were allocated to either Tinsley, Stratford or Finsbury Park. By February 1966 Tinsley already had a big fleet of EE powered locos.


Yes, by 1967 the EE Type 3 was working through to/from Manchester.


About half of the Manchester-Sheffield trains via Woodhead called at Dinting.

So my memory was correct regarding the 37.

It therefore looks like I probably didn't have haulage by a Class 30, and by only one of classes EM1 and EM2 (probably EM1, as my recollection is that it was black).

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Couple of hints in relation to Brush 2's. There is a website, 'class31gen.co.uk' which lists engine number details, against loco painted number and approx. dates of swap from Mirlees to EE. Taking a (very) brief scan, it would appear most such power unit changes were undertaken when locos were allocated to Stratford, with Ipswich, Norwich depot's possibly being involved, although this may just be a ref to where the associated locos were allocated at the time of the engine swap?
Tinsley/ Darnall, are mentioned, but far less so.
In addition there is the 'Harris' (Allocation) book to refer to, in relation to individual loco allocation dates, so perhaps a trawl through both above by loco number, might give a better picture, but not a five minute job by any means.

There are a few 31 orientated books out there I believe, which to date I have not purchased, which may give greater detail perhaps?

 

[Magdalia]

Couple of hints in relation to Brush 2's. There is a website, 'class31gen.co.uk' which lists engine number details, against loco painted number and approx. dates of swap from Mirlees to EE. Taking a (very) brief scan, it would appear most such power unit changes were undertaken when locos were allocated to Stratford, with Ipswich, Norwich depot's possibly being involved, although this may just be a ref to where the associated locos were allocated at the time of the engine swap?
Tinsley/ Darnall, are mentioned, but far less so.
In addition there is the 'Harris' (Allocation) book to refer to, in relation to individual loco allocation dates, so perhaps a trawl through both above by loco number, might give a better picture, but not a five minute job by any means.

There are a few 31 orientated books out there I believe, which to date I have not purchased, which may give greater detail perhaps?

In BR Database it is easier to see reclassifications (when locos were re-engined) and depot reallocations in the same place.

For example, look at D5540 and D5557. Both were reallocated to Tinsley in the same month that they were re-engined, from Ipswich and Norwich respectively.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Couple of hints in relation to Brush 2's. There is a website, 'class31gen.co.uk' which lists engine number details, against loco painted number and approx. dates of swap from Mirlees to EE. Taking a (very) brief scan, it would appear most such power unit changes were undertaken when locos were allocated to Stratford, with Ipswich, Norwich depot's possibly being involved, although this may just be a ref to where the associated locos were allocated at the time of the engine swap?
Tinsley/ Darnall, are mentioned, but far less so.

So itb looks like most of them were re-built at Stratford, but may ahve moved to Tinsley shortly afterwards. But without knowing a number, a Brush Type 2 seen on the Hope Valley in February 1966 could have been through this process, but equally mighht not yet have been?

 

[Magdalia]

So itb looks like most of them were re-built at Stratford

No. All of them at Doncaster Works.

But without knowing a number, a Brush Type 2 seen on the Hope Valley in February 1966 could have been through this process, but equally mighht not yet have been?

Yes, without knowing a number, it could be either, but a Tinsley loco is quite likely to be EE.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Are any of the old Mirrlees engines known to still exist in industry? Many other old engines have randomly appeared over the years.

 

[D5645]

Are any of the old Mirrlees engines known to still exist in industry? Many other old engines have randomly appeared over the years.

I think the last Mirrlees JVS12T engine block in existence AFAIK was owned by North Lincolnshire Engineering at Louth in Lincolnshire. It was disposed of quite a while ago I believe.

We at A1A Locomotives Limited did ponder recreating a 1365hp Mirrlees powered Brush Type 2 for a while but the idea didn’t go any further than that.

 

[randyrippley]

you may find this thread on RMWeb interesting especially this linked post

What Happened to the JVS12Ts?

www.rmweb.co.uk

he says

The redundant JVS12T engines were disposed to various organisations including North Lincs Engineering ( a picture exists of numerous engines in a field as purchased by NL) and many went into service in various roles. NL reengineered the sets for new applications but without changing any major components. The NL supplied engines were used for subsequent decades with no issues such as cracks developing into failures. The last NL engine in service was one sold to a scrap merchant on the Channel Islands to drive a metal fragmentation unit which is a very tough duty. The engine lasted for over 40 years in this application and the MD of NL commented ‘Not bad for an engine condemned as scrap by BR!’ It was only at the stage did NL scrap the final remaining engine which had been kept as an insurance policy in case the cracking problem had developed – thus eliminating a perfect piece of kit to permit a conversion of a Class 31 back to a 30.

from other speculation in the thread there was the possibility that there may still be one or more lingering around in an old trawler somewhere

 

[Ashley Hill]

Interesting information thanks for sharing. Fingers crossed that some trawler captain may call the A1A group one day .

 

[Magdalia]

from other speculation in the thread there was the possibility that there may still be one or more lingering around in an old trawler somewhere

Speculation is the right description for this. Where is the real evidence, for example names of trawlers that were fitted with ex Brush Type 2 Mirrlees power units?

 

[norbitonflyer]

Speculation is the right description for this. Where is the real evidence, for example names of trawlers that were fitted with ex Brush Type 2 Mirrlees power units?

Not necessarily ex-rail. The engine was originally designed for marine use, so there may be some that were installed new in boats, and were never on rails. (The engine for the "Baby Deltic" replica has a similar provenance)

 

[Clarence Yard]

The engine inside the baby Deltic replica is ex-rail, last used in D5905.

 

[norbitonflyer]

The engine inside the baby Deltic replica is ex-rail, last used in D5905.

I stand corrected. I could be sure I read somewhere it was ex-Navy!

 

[Strathclyder]

I stand corrected. I could be sure I read somewhere it was ex-Navy!

I believe at least two of the 'big' Deltics still with us have had at least one ex-marine unit installed at various times over the years since entering presevation; Royal Scots Grey & Gordon Highlander both ring a bell in that regard.

E: Napier Chronicles has come good again: http://www.napier-chronicles.co.uk/mcf_unit_marine.htm#541