Class 317 future

[90sWereBetter]

I travelled on two 317s last weekend, a 317/6 between Tottenham Hale and Liverpool Street on Saturday, and repainted 317503 between Stratford and Tottenham yesterday. I couldn't believe how ancient the latter's interior was, what with the garish interior finish, unusual opening windows, first class slap bang in the middle of a carriage, and tired moquette. By contrast, the 317/6 had a refurbed interior, which was fantastic.

I'm starting to wonder if the 317/5s will be ever be refurbished, and if it's worth doing it. 5-6 years ago would have been the time to do it but now, the trains are pushing 35 years of age and look tired. Would there even be a place for these trains to go if and when they finally leave the WAML? I fear the 317/5s are a missed opportunity refurbishment wise.

I also wonder if the 317/7s will end up as the first 317s to be scrapped? It seems the demonstrator 317722 is a total failure (even when it hasn't broken down again ) and the ones with London Overground are rarely out in service, and in any case will probably be the first trains to be replaced when the new stock arrives.

That being said, the 317/6s (the second-phase units) only really need the toilet mods, and they'll be good for another 10-15 years. I much prefer the 317/6s to the other subclasses.

 

[Clansman]

Probably cascaded to Northern, they seem to get the cast-offs and the worst trains (Pacers etc). Most likely be scrapped after they are surplus to requirements at GA, unless they press ahead with the Demonstrator project like they have done with the 321s? An idea of mine would be to give them to Scotrail and convert them to 318s, but I personally wouldn't like to (and I'm sure Scotrail too) would prefer new EMU's rather than old cast-offs.

 

[Tracked]

Went on a GA one from London KX to Stevenage a few weeks ago, the interior was shockingly bad even by the standards I'm used to with Northern Rail, wouldn't complain if NR got them and they did them up inside like the 319's they inherited though.

*comments about 230's, 442's, Voyagers, 150's and 153's intentionally left blank*

 

[petersi]

Don't you mean GTR some of theirs have been re painted but the insides have not been revamped

 

[Tracked]

*cough*

Whoops.

Yes

 

[PHILIPE]

Could there be some cascading to GWR and ATW (or their successor) as the much delayed Electrification kicks in.

 

[Townsend Hook]

Store the 317s until the MML is electrified? Should be just the thing for St Pancras-Sheffield

 

[jopsuk]

The Great Northern and London Overground 317 fleets have defined retiral plans with the introduction of the Class 700 on GN-TL services and 710 on Overground West Anglia. beyond that?

The GA franchise spec did not have any requirement to replace the 317 fleet. This means it almost certainly won't be. I'd like to see it get a good refurbishment.
For post 2020 service there's a lot of work to be done anyway- apart from the 317/7s none of them have an accessible toilet. They all have rubber air-actuated door door buttons. The wheelchair area on the /3, /5 and /8 is the ex-parcels area in one end carriage, remote from the (non-accessible anyway) toilets- I have a wheelchair using friend with bowel/bladder issues who actively fears these trains.

the AGA West Anglia operation has two distinct service groups that it uses 317s for- basically Hertford East and Stortford-Stansted which are primarily local inner suburban, and Cambridge services where they interwork with 379s (which are excellent for my friend and have all mod cons- the holy trinity of aircon, power sockets, wifi!). Ideally there would be two separate fleets here (one with 1st, one without- though to be honest I'd go without entirely) but that would make platform allocation at Liverpool Street and fleet diagramming a nightmare..

And then there's after about 2025-2030 when Crossrail 2 should be coming into service, which will mean 4-track to Broxbourne AND a requirement for 4tph Stratford-Angel Road (calling at Lea Bridge), which the CR2 consultation sketches in as going at least as far as Broxbourne. Which will be about the point when the 317s are 40-45 years old.

 

[SPADTrap]

AGA are about to start doing some work to the 317/5 and /8 interiors.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Went on a GA one from London KX to Stevenage a few weeks ago, the interior was shockingly bad even by the standards I'm used to with Northern Rail, wouldn't complain if NR got them and they did them up inside like the 319's they inherited though.

*comments about 230's, 442's, Voyagers, 150's and 153's intentionally left blank*

He was a bit lost then

OP, I see the LOROL 317/7s out daily, nothing rare about them being out whatsoever.

 

[Class 170101]

Ideally there would be two separate fleets here (one with 1st, one without- though to be honest I'd go without entirely) but that would make platform allocation at Liverpool Street and fleet diagramming a nightmare..

In theory 317/5s along with 317/8s are diagrammed separately to 317/6s....
in practise however.....

 

[MrPIC]

722 is out again, I saw it at Stratford earlier. The /5's are also due a mini refresh like the /6's soon. I've also heard murmours about new PIDS for the 317's but I won't hold my breath on any of it!