Class 321s on West Anglia

[Wivenswold]

With all the future changes planned for Greater Anglia, it got me thinking back to the last big stock renewal at the end of the 80's.

I wasn't a frequent traveler on West Anglia but I've seen photos of Class 321s in service to Cambridge when they were first introduced. How long did they last over there and how many were allocated to the WA lines? I assume they bridged the gap between the 310s and the 317/1s arriving from the Euston Line and delivery of the 322s. I know there was a plan for 310s to run to Stansted (from a 1988 fleet guide that's somewhere in the loft), but did they ever run to the airport's new station?

 

[Failed Unit]

I am sure an issue with doo and monitors bought the 317s over. They couldn't see them on the bins and they didn't want to spend the money moving the equipment. I am sure the bins operated with guards.

 

[Wivenswold]

Ah, so the original intention was WA outers with a mix of 310s and 321s?

 

[Class 170101]

Class 322s (similar to the 321s) ran on Stansted Express when it opened I believe.

 

[D365]

Class 322s (similar to the 321s) ran on Stansted Express when it opened I believe.

OP is asking about 321 operation before the five Class 322 units were built and the Class 317 arrival.

 

[Wivenswold]

Yep, how can I forget the 322s? They were in bad shape by the time the were used on the GEML for a short time after the last 312s were withdrawn in 2004.

 

[N228PF]

I am sure an issue with doo and monitors bought the 317s over. They couldn't see them on the bins and they didn't want to spend the money moving the equipment. I am sure the bins operated with guards.

I don't think I understand your use of bins. Could you elaborate for me?

 

[66103]

I don't think I understand your use of bins. Could you elaborate for me?

Bins is a nickname for 321s

 

[cjmillsnun]

I don't think I understand your use of bins. Could you elaborate for me?

321s are known as Dusty bins. As there was a tv game show called 3-2-1 which starred a bin called Dusty Bin.

[youtube]JDaLy8-P3r8[/youtube]

 

[Big Chris]

\class 321's are sometimes known as bins due to the television show 3-2-1 and the character Dusty Bin

 

[bgstrowger]

If I remember rightly, the Class 321s didn't last long on the WA services, mainly because of complaints about the 1st class accomodation.

 

[MatthewRead]

How long did they last on the West Anglia Main line then?

 

[Bringback309s]

WA 321's also moved to the GE to replace the 309's. They were also boosted by some 321/4's from MK services on the WCML shortly afterwards.

 

[D365]

WA 321's also moved to the GE to replace the 309's. They were also boosted by some 321/4's from MK services on the WCML shortly afterwards.

Were the additional 321/4s purchased specifically with the intention of transferring them to the GE, or were they relieved from MK duties through some other cascade?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

From a very foggy memory, I believe 321s started out on WA from introduction (in addition to EA and Essex). I know they replaced Class 307s on the Southend Victoria line and I think they replaced the last of the Class 305/308 units in WA (to allow them to be scrapped). I don't think 321's worked on WA regularly after about 1993, though I stand to be corrected.

 

[MrPIC]

There was talk recently before the franchise announcement of 321's moving west, but as stated correctly previously, they don't feature droplight windows and so cannot be used for look back DOO along the valley and stations without monitors. They would have to put in mirrors or cameras everywhere

 

[Wivenswold]

WA 321's also moved to the GE to replace the 309's. They were also boosted by some 321/4's from MK services on the WCML shortly afterwards.

That makes sense, so 92/93 then. That's when the 309s were cut back to peaks only.

 

[MatthewRead]

I read that 317's didn't start running on West Anglia until 1990 I know that loco hauled services finished on the 10th May 1990 and on the West Coast suburban on the same day but when did 317's finish on the WCML?

 

[a good off]

I remember the 321's working the Cambridge -Liverpool St services alongside 310's for a period around 1989. The 305's were replaced by the 321s. At that time running alongside the 321s there was still a loco hauled service to King's Lynn with 47's which survived until May 1990. The 86's stopped working to Cambridge in 1989.

 

[Wivenswold]

I had no idea the 86's worked to Cambridge. You learn something new every day on here.

 

[a good off]

I had no idea the 86's worked to Cambridge. You learn something new every day on here.

One of mine:

https://flic.kr/p/e1cgwj

 

[Bringback309s]

Did the NSE liveried 86 ('s) ever make it to Cambridge? I've got a memory they did a very short stint after retirement from the cobblers..

 

[D365]

Did the NSE liveried 86 ('s) ever make it to Cambridge? I've got a memory they did a very short stint after retirement from the cobblers..

There was only one (86401) and that must have done, as it was painted as part of some sort of promotion.

 

[captainbigun]

There was only one (86401) and that must have done, as it was painted as part of some sort of promotion.

It did and it held the LST to Cambridge record until relatively recently.

 

[MatthewRead]

So when was the last class 86 to Cambridge?

 

[Wivenswold]

I read that 317's didn't start running on West Anglia until 1990 I know that loco hauled services finished on the 10th May 1990 and on the West Coast suburban on the same day but when did 317's finish on the WCML?

I've seen a You Tube video of Euston from November 1989 and there were still 317/1s about, though mostly working in tandem with a 321 in an 8 car set. Which surprised me.

 

[D365]

I've seen a You Tube video of Euston from November 1989 and there were still 317/1s about, though mostly working in tandem with a 321 in an 8 car set. Which surprised me.

Units of Class 318 and 320 run in multiple regularly around Glasgow, so it can be done if the need is there

 

[Wivenswold]

Seems like 321s are set to return to WA after all.

This from Burles in Railway Gazette

"Service improvements are to be phased in over the next three years. May 2017 will see the entry into service of 18 four-car Class 321 EMUs being displaced from Great Northern by Siemens Class 700s. This would provide some extra capacity for West Anglia services and release existing trains for a £23m refurbishment programme. Twice-daily ‘Norwich in 90’ inter-city trains are also due to begin running at off-peak times."

 

[SPADTrap]

Seems like 321s are set to return to WA after all.

This from Burles in Railway Gazette

"Service improvements are to be phased in over the next three years. May 2017 will see the entry into service of 18 four-car Class 321 EMUs being displaced from Great Northern by Siemens Class 700s. This would provide some extra capacity for West Anglia services and release existing trains for a £23m refurbishment programme. Twice-daily ‘Norwich in 90’ inter-city trains are also due to begin running at off-peak times."

Wouldn't be so sure. GN don't have 18 321s. They seem to have counted the 317s in that which are probably for the West. We lend so many 317s to lorol we can't have a capacity issue

 

[D365]

Seems like 321s are set to return to WA after all.

This from Burles in Railway Gazette

"Service improvements are to be phased in over the next three years. May 2017 will see the entry into service of 18 four-car Class 321 EMUs being displaced from Great Northern by Siemens Class 700s. This would provide some extra capacity for West Anglia services and release existing trains for a £23m refurbishment programme. Twice-daily ‘Norwich in 90’ inter-city trains are also due to begin running at off-peak times."

Great Northern don't have 18 321s! It's going to be 12x 317/1 and 6x 321/4 which are cascaded.

And we don't have Class 700s on our side yet, though they are enabling the 387/1s to be cascaded to us.