Class 350 factory livery

[py_megapixel]

I distinctly remember that when TPE's class 350 Desiros entered service, at least one unit ran for a while in a plain factory livery of some kind, which I distinctly remember seeing but never photographing.

Then they disappeared for a while (or maybe I just didn't see them) and then reappeared in FirstGroup livery.

Assuming this is actually the case and I'm not making this up, three questions:

1. How many plain-liveried 350s ever operated, and why? Why weren't they just delivered in FirstGroup livery?
2. What was the reason for seemingly temporarily removing them from service and then re-entering later?
3. Does anyone know of any photos available freely online of this plain livery? I can't seem to find any, which is why I have the slight concern that I might be completely wrong about all this.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

When you say disappeared and reappeared, perhaps you mean the 350 which suffered an incident and was stripped of it’s TPE livery during repair? It then re-emerged in the blank, plain livery as before. 403, I believe.

 

[Domh245]

All 10 of the 350/4s were delivered in 'undercoat grey'. Can't say for certain but I expect it was because of the complicated ordering arrangement whereby London Midland ordered them on behalf of TPE. Delivery in basecoat grey left TPE free to vinyl them however they pleased

I don't recall any temporary withdrawals for them, although they weren't necessarily the most reliable units with quite a few sitdowns. Contemporary threads on them are here and here

There's plenty on flickr, eg. Filtering a search of them to before mid 2014 should bring up examples

 

[mpb56125]

When the 350/1 first arrived they where all white until London Midland was created.
Various liveries at https://mark5812.smugmug.com/UKpicturesclassorder/Class-350/

Mark

 

[Bletchleyite]

When the 350/1 first arrived they where all white until London Midland was created.
Various liveries at https://mark5812.smugmug.com/UKpicturesclassorder/Class-350/

They weren't, they were in reverse "BR" blue and grey as supplied.

e.g. https://mark5812.smugmug.com/UKpicturesclassorder/Class-350/i-FfVLV43/A

The LM grey is the same base grey, they weren't repainted, just vinyled over the top, that picture makes it look a lighter colour than it was. Units painted fresh by LM (i.e. /2s and /3s) were in a slightly different, lighter grey - this was useful if you wanted to spot the /1 in a formation before it stopped.

 

[fgwrich]

They weren't, they were in reverse "BR" blue and grey as supplied.

e.g. https://mark5812.smugmug.com/UKpicturesclassorder/Class-350/i-FfVLV43/A

The LM grey is the same base grey, they weren't repainted, just vinyled over the top, that picture makes it look a lighter colour than it was. Units painted fresh by LM (i.e. /2s and /3s) were in a slightly different, lighter grey - this was useful if you wanted to spot the /1 in a formation before it stopped.

Indeed so, the reasoning for the "Reverse Blue Grey" was due to the fact there were shared units, shared between Silverlink {Birmingham New Street to Euston services} & Central Trains {Liverpool to Birmingham services}, hence the mutual livery and mutual interior scheme of Blue & Yellow, though being originally planned to be 450s meant they also gained SWT standard stickers inside (safety / toilet etc stickers).

Agree about the different shades of grey making it more useful to spot the 350/1!

 

[SargeNpton]

Indeed so, the reasoning for the "Reverse Blue Grey" was due to the fact there were shared units, shared between Silverlink {Birmingham New Street to Euston services} & Central Trains {Liverpool to Birmingham services}, hence the mutual livery and mutual interior scheme of Blue & Yellow, though being originally planned to be 450s meant they also gained SWT standard stickers inside (safety / toilet etc stickers).

Agree about the different shades of grey making it more useful to spot the 350/1!

Also gained the mounting points on the bogies for the third-rail shoes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Reverse BR blue and grey isn't, notably, a completely new livery:

Prototype HST in reverse BR blue and grey livery

 

[158757]

They ran when first introduced in plain grey, I seem to recall there were maybe minor delays in getting them into traffic, or getting training done in time.

Debut Desiros

Having been delayed by just under an hour due to flooding on the line between Symington and Beattock, 350403 leads 350401 whilst working 1m96 1109 Glasgow Central - Manchester Piccadilly. Although this diagram is booked to just be a 4 car, it was doubled today due to it carrying the TPE...

www.flickr.com

Once things had settled in a bit they were then vinyled into the TPE 350 livery, a quick date search on flickr suggests this was from December 2013 to around May 2014, I remember it happening myself but it was quite a few years ago now.

 

[SeanG]

This is my shot of 403 on 22 August 2019.
I believe it was damaged and then repaired. It was only back in service for tpe for a short while before heading down south so wasn't reliveried.

 

[janahan]

Also gained the mounting points on the bogies for the third-rail shoes.

Not just the mounting points, the first lot (350/1) also had the third rail shoes (with retractors) and equipment fitted making them fully dual voltage units, and this was actually used a few years back (2009) when southern borrowed a couple to run the Milton Keynes - East Croydon service, whilst they had lent their 377 dual voltage units to First Capital connect.

I believe they still have third rail capability, it was never removed during the 110mph update.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I believe they still have third rail capability, it was never removed during the 110mph update.

Would be silly to remove it and lose the flexibility to send them sarf ov da Rivva at some point. I believe the actual shoes and mountings were removed, though, to save maintenance costs/them hitting things, but they can just be refitted if needed and are stored at Northampton.

 

[supervc-10]

I'm sure I read somewhere that the 350s as a whole could be (relatively) easily converted to be dual voltage units? And vice versa for the 450s (and 444s)? I presume that the 350/1s are fully dual voltage apart from the lack of shoes, but that the extra components are easily fitted to the AC only units?

 

[swt_passenger]

Would be silly to remove it and lose the flexibility to send them sarf ov da Rivva at some point. I believe the actual shoes and mountings were removed, though, to save maintenance costs/them hitting things, but they can just be refitted if needed and are stored at Northampton.

So people regularly repeat here, and often with some certainty, and yet I’ve uploaded photographs to the forum only a few years ago showing that the 350/1 shoes and shoe arms were still there, but hidden behind the shoe beam when in the raised position. IE they will not be seen with a quick glance from platform level.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Depends what you mean by "a few years". When they were operating the Southern service they were reinstated.

 

[swt_passenger]

Depends what you mean by "a few years". When they were operating the Southern service they were reinstated.

At least in 2016, I took a few photos at Euston, and the four units I checked all had their shoes, about 7 or 8 years after the ”loan to Southern”. We had this same discussion in early 2019 as well, but as you’re on the WCML you’d be far better placed to check the current situation than me...

 

[37057]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/29715208@N02/50180028027/

The shoe gear is what's essentially bolted directly to the bogie frame (see below the yaw damper and next to the ARB drop link). It also shows a cable tie securing the shoe support bracket in the raised position as well as the actual shoe in view. The shoe beam which is attached between the radial arms is the most obvious clue. VMI shows the situation much clearer too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Cheers.

I won't be using the WCML any time soon sadly (particularly not with an "essential only" rule likely to come in on Thursday) however when I have an opportunity I'll have a look. It is I suppose possible they were refitted for the Southern service (might as well do it to all of them to avoid a unit ending up getting to the changeover and then getting stuck) and not then removed again.

 

[swt_passenger]

Cheers.

I won't be using the WCML any time soon sadly (particularly not with an "essential only" rule likely to come in on Thursday) however when I have an opportunity I'll have a look. It is I suppose possible they were refitted for the Southern service (might as well do it to all of them to avoid a unit ending up getting to the changeover and then getting stuck) and not then removed again.

But then, they did say at the time only a small number were prepared for use on the Southern, but what‘s the odds of every 350/1 I’ve ever randomly photographed having also been previously used on the Southern? I reckon it’s likely they’ve all been continually fitted with shoe gear...

 

[Bletchleyite]

But then, what‘s the odds of every 350/1 I’ve ever randomly photographed having been previously used on the Southern?

It wouldn't surprise me if they put them on all the 350/1s to avoid the complexity of having yet another subfleet. I forget, though - did they live at Selhurst while on loan, or was the service operated out of Northampton with different units used each day?

 

[swt_passenger]

It wouldn't surprise me if they put them on all the 350/1s to avoid the complexity of having yet another subfleet. I forget, though - did they live at Selhurst while on loan, or was the service operated out of Northampton with different units used each day?

I can’t remember where they ran from, but I do know the first one I saw in use was during its layover at Milton Keynes, and it struck me then that the shoes were effectively invisible when raised.

 

[37057]

Not that it's really relevant but this is an AC only bogie. If you look at the frame in line with the centre you can see six plugged holes either side where the shoe gear would fit attach. If you look closely enough you see the blanked pipework. Must make setting the ride heights fun.