Class 365 PBC Unit and PIS system

[WMasterJedi]

They didnt make these for one only, they made them to be able to switch between operator anytime as both the controller and audio controller have both GT North and SE data installed by default.

 

[WMasterJedi]

I think I may have found something.

I may be wrong but after checking the PCB the EPROM inputs and outputs appear to be going into two other chips, RAM chips to be exact, I think on start-up the EPROM data gets copied to the RAM chips because I think when it checks to see if the data is corrupt it doesn't check the EPROMs but it checks the copied data in the RAM chips.

More info to back this up is that the way it broke was because I was using it taken apart and a screw thread from the screen touched some of the pins on the RAM chips which would support the idea of the RAM chips not being corrupted because they don't hold data when turned off but just broken so they don't hold data properly.

Another idea is that one of the traces is broken meaning that the data isn't reading / being read properly causing it to think its corrupted.

With all this being said, I may be wrong.

 

[WMasterJedi]

Alternatively, I have been able to track down another controller for £60 including shipping.

 

[365 Networker]

I think I may have found something.

I may be wrong but after checking the PCB the EPROM inputs and outputs appear to be going into two other chips, RAM chips to be exact, I think on start-up the EPROM data gets copied to the RAM chips because I think when it checks to see if the data is corrupt it doesn't check the EPROMs but it checks the copied data in the RAM chips.

More info to back this up is that the way it broke was because I was using it taken apart and a screw thread from the screen touched some of the pins on the RAM chips which would support the idea of the RAM chips not being corrupted because they don't hold data when turned off but just broken so they don't hold data properly.

Another idea is that one of the traces is broken meaning that the data isn't reading / being read properly causing it to think its corrupted.

With all this being said, I may be wrong.

Alternatively, I have been able to track down another controller for £60 including shipping.

I assume you are referring to your original controller with the GN destinations? If so, you might want to try replacing the RAM chip before spending money on a new unit. This also doesn't explain why the audio announcements are not playing with the working SE controller. I do seem to remember that drivers had the option to set up the destination display without the audio announcements - perhaps the controller is currently in this mode - there may be an option within the menu somewhere?

 

[WMasterJedi]

I assume you are referring to your original controller with the GN destinations? If so, you might want to try replacing the RAM chip before spending money on a new unit. This also doesn't explain why the audio announcements are not playing with the working SE controller. I do seem to remember that drivers had the option to set up the destination display without the audio announcements - perhaps the controller is currently in this mode - there may be an option within the menu somewhere?

The reason the announcements are not playing will probably be due to the fact that the data lines aren't connected properly

Edit: POST 365!!!!!!!

 

[D365]

Another idea is that one of the traces is broken meaning that the data isn't reading / being read properly causing it to think its corrupted.

The reason the announcements are not playing will probably be due to the fact that the data lines aren't connected properly

Have you done any electrical and/or digital logic continuity tests?

 

[WMasterJedi]

I've done a little testing with FFMPEG using ADPCM and although I haven't found a perfect solution as the clicking is still there, I've been able to have it not change volume randomly and stay the same consistent volume.

 

[365 Networker]

I've done a little testing with FFMPEG using ADPCM and although I haven't found a perfect solution as the clicking is still there, I've been able to have it not change volume randomly and stay the same consistent volume.

I have a feeling the "clicking" sound is used by the controller software to stich the individual sections of audio together into announcements. Presumably the software was able to filter this out. Could you post the output of FFMPEG?

 

[WMasterJedi]

I have a feeling the "clicking" sound is used by the controller software to stich the individual sections of audio together into announcements. Presumably the software was able to filter this out. Could you post the output of FFMPEG?

That does sound plausible.

Here is the previous vs the newly found ADPCM.

previous

new

 

[Skimble19]

That does sound plausible.

Here is the previous vs the newly found ADPCM.

previous

new

Ahhh, I do miss ‘Blundon Kings Cross’!

 

[WMasterJedi]

Ahhh, I do miss ‘Blundon Kings Cross’!

And 'Pitchin'

 

[WMasterJedi]

This audio is just me putting my phone next to the speakers I’ve got connected to it.

View attachment Non stop KGX.mp3

 

[365 Networker]

This audio is just me putting my phone next to the speakers I’ve got connected to it.

View attachment 173762

Note the high pitch static sound - that must be how the clicking is filtered out, perhaps this is part of the amplification system.

 

[bramling]

Note the high pitch static sound - that must be how the clicking is filtered out, perhaps this is part of the amplification system.

The hissing sound was heard on the real thing, though not when the actual live PA was being used, only the pre-recorded stuff.

 

[WMasterJedi]

What I have also noticed is that the repeated constant clicking sound does actually appear in the real thing
Although not as noticeable.

 

[365 Networker]

The hissing sound was heard on the real thing, though not when the actual live PA was being used, only the pre-recorded stuff.

Yes - I do remember this - I’m pretty sure the amount of ”hiss” varied between units. There were also at least two variants of the manual PA chime.

 

[bramling]

What I have also noticed is that the repeated constant clicking sound does actually appear in the real thing
Although not as noticeable.

I wouldn’t be surprised if that was present through the PA, though with background noise it probably would have been fairly imperceptible.

Well done on getting so tantalisingly close, seems like very nearly there now!

Good to see the 365s are still attracting attention!

 

[WMasterJedi]

Update!

I’ve just been up to the east Kent railway and purchased a whole load of new parts!

 

[365 Networker]

Update!

I’ve just been up to the east Kent railway and purchased a whole load of new parts!

View attachment 173812

You’ll have enough to build a cab replica soon!

 

[WMasterJedi]

You’ll have enough to build a cab replica soon!

That’s the plan!

 

[WMasterJedi]

Just arrived home and I’ve been able to get the speedometer panel working!

 

[365 Networker]

The reason the announcements are not playing will probably be due to the fact that the data lines aren't connected properly

Edit: POST 365!!!!!!!

Have you been able to get the announcements working? Also, there is another Power / brake controller on ebay - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/286393447369 - it's interesting to see the Westinghouse label as I had thought that they were made by Davies & Metcalfe (I'm pretty sure the 465 ones were)

 

[365 Networker]

Interesting documentary from 1999 with some 365 action from the cab (starting from around 22:49)

 

[WMasterJedi]

Have you been able to get the announcements working? Also, there is another Power / brake controller on ebay - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/286393447369 - it's interesting to see the Westinghouse label as I had thought that they were made by Davies & Metcalfe (I'm pretty sure the 465 ones were)

Yeah I’ve seen that on eBay, the 365 parts that eBay seller is/was selling were from the east Kent railway, I know that because I remember seeing them when I picked up these.

 

[WMasterJedi]

Interesting announcement unit update!

Sorry for the long break however I'm back doing stuff!

I have put together this simple little circuit to lower the raw speaker level output (10V) from the unit to microphone level (10mV, 0.01V).

This allows me to do multiple things, including connecting it to a landline telephone and listening to raw announcements over the phone or connecting it to the microphone jack on the back of my computer.
From doing this, through audacity I've been able to record clear and raw announcements straight from the unit!
View attachment raw_output.mp3
Note: The audio is edited to the original recording however the audio itself is the same, I've just removed the quiet blank space between announcements.

 

[365 Networker]

Interesting announcement unit update!

Sorry for the long break however I'm back doing stuff!

I have put together this simple little circuit to lower the raw speaker level output (10V) from the unit to microphone level (10mV, 0.01V).
View attachment 178638
This allows me to do multiple things, including connecting it to a landline telephone and listening to raw announcements over the phone or connecting it to the microphone jack on the back of my computer.
From doing this, through audacity I've been able to record clear and raw announcements straight from the unit!
View attachment 178637
Note: The audio is edited to the original recording however the audio itself is the same, I've just removed the quiet blank space between announcements.

Excellent! Hopefully you will be able to get the other announcements working soon.

 

[Class 466]

Interesting announcement unit update!

Sorry for the long break however I'm back doing stuff!

I have put together this simple little circuit to lower the raw speaker level output (10V) from the unit to microphone level (10mV, 0.01V).
View attachment 178638
This allows me to do multiple things, including connecting it to a landline telephone and listening to raw announcements over the phone or connecting it to the microphone jack on the back of my computer.
From doing this, through audacity I've been able to record clear and raw announcements straight from the unit!
View attachment 178637
Note: The audio is edited to the original recording however the audio itself is the same, I've just removed the quiet blank space between announcements.

“Please listen for announcements”