Class 365 vs 350

[ailsa]

Well, the idea of cascading the 319s to the Thames Valley might not go ahead, and they already have Turbo-based units. Transferring 40 365s there would be a very effective replacement for 37 165s and 21 166s, assuming that electrification goes ahead and some stay on the route.

That's a very interesting idea! Assuming that most or all Turbos stayed with FGW it would also give a somewhat unified fleet. It would also avoid the problem of some passengers complaining about 'getting old cast-off trains from London'

 

[RobShipway]

The 40 365 trains would be good to replace the class 165 trains, which in turn could replace older DMU stock if the fleet can be passed to work on other routes.

 

[LE Greys]

The 40 365 trains would be good to replace the class 165 trains, which in turn could replace older DMU stock if the fleet can be passed to work on other routes.

They would probably have to stick to former Great Western lines, which suggests Valley Lines or the Bristol area. All the Pacers would be displaced, and might go to reinforce Northern services.

 

[pemma]

I'm a bit surprised by the comparison of 365s and 350s.

From my experience 365s and 465s are virtually the same but one is AC and the other is DC. I think both types are a bit like a 323 but with a bit extra added on the spec i.e. 4th carriage, FC section and a bit more of a streamlined exterior.

The only unit I've been on which I feel is like a 350 is a 185 which is obviously the diesel version of the same thing.

Going back to something else said in the original post I find it surprising we keep seeing new train designs. Once the Turbostar had been built we just needed to get modified versions to suit different services, like with the Sprinters. A 110-125mph Turbostar would have been much better for TPE than the 185s yet all the work goes in to the Desiro diesel and then it's found it's more fuel thirsty than other units and has weight problems on one of the lines it was supposed to be running on (Selby-Hull.)
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They would probably have to stick to former Great Western lines, which suggests Valley Lines or the Bristol area. All the Pacers would be displaced, and might go to reinforce Northern services.

Northern have got a headache to decide which services get downgraded to Pacers when the LO 172s releases the 150s to FGW which releases the 142s to Northern and East Coast get their 180s back.

The problem is not every line is cleared for Pacers. Pacers are less good in areas where there are high gradients and has been subsidence due to mining in the areas, so even on some lines where they aren't banned they're limited to 20mph when the Sprinter speed is or could be 50mph. There are also some platform issues at certain stations.

It's also not as simple as saying you'll have more units so you can use 2 Pacers to replace a 156 or 3 Pacers to replace 2x150s as doing that on some lines would make the train is longer than the platforms and SDO is not available on Pacers or most of Northern's other units.

Northern need new 23m carriage trains not more Pacers.

 

[poshbakerloo]

The seats in the 350s are too hard!

 

[LE Greys]

From my experience 365s and 465s are virtually the same but one is AC and the other is DC. I think both types are a bit like a 323 but with a bit extra added on the spec i.e. 4th carriage, FC section and a bit more of a streamlined exterior.

Not quite. 465s are mostly 2+3 seated, high-density units, with traction packagers optimised for quick darts between stops. 365s are 2+2 seated, medium-density, medium-distance units, designed for longer runs and a higher top speed. They are probably a bit more comfortable than 465s as well, seats are definitely wider and not so close together. I haven't had much experience of 323s, but I imagine they're more like 465s than 365s.

Northern need new 23m carriage trains not more Pacers.

I quite agree! Northern need a large number of new diesel units (possibly 172s or something completely new) as a standard suburban train. This would replace all Pacers and 150s, allowing the remaining 156s and 158s to deploy onto longer routes, especially the S&C. Electrification of the West Riding would be even better, but is unlikely.

 

[37401]

So, if you were in charge of procuring new 25kV trains how would you chose between them (or indeed other trains)

- How Dusty the seats are
- What the Horn sounds like
- If its going to be painted in Loadhaul
- If its got a split box

On a serious note, I think 365s are better than 350s but thats doesnt make them top gun at all

 

[pemma]

Not quite. 465s are mostly 2+3 seated, high-density units, with traction packagers optimised for quick darts between stops. 365s are 2+2 seated, medium-density, medium-distance units, designed for longer runs and a higher top speed. They are probably a bit more comfortable than 465s as well, seats are definitely wider and not so close together. I haven't had much experience of 323s, but I imagine they're more like 465s than 365s.

465s and 323s have virtually identical interiors and even make identical noises on moving off and stopping. The main noticeable differences are the exterior shape, AC or DC and the extra 4 carriage on the 465s with FC.

Are the 365 and 465 differences a bit like the 156 and 158 differences then?

 

[atomicdanny]

465s and 323s have virtually identical interiors and even make identical noises on moving off and stopping. The main noticeable differences are the exterior shape, AC or DC and the extra 4 carriage on the 465s with FC.

Are the 365 and 465 differences a bit like the 156 and 158 differences then?

Well 365s top speed is 100mph, where as the 465 / 466 is only 75mph (although 365 did used to be 3rd rail (southeastern) as well though and used to have the same front as the 465, but you probably knew that)

 

[ailsa]

465s and 323s have virtually identical interiors and even make identical noises on moving off and stopping. The main noticeable differences are the exterior shape, AC or DC and the extra 4 carriage on the 465s with FC.

Are the 365 and 465 differences a bit like the 156 and 158 differences then?

The 465s and 323s make similar but not identical noises. Both have GTO thyristor traction packages, and the thyristors have a limit to the switching frequency. The control gear changes waveform as the train speed rises, so that the switching frequency doesn't go too high. This is responsible for the 'gear changing' sound. The traction packages in the 465 and 323 come from different manufacturers.

Modern computer control gear and power transistors have made the old system obsolete and now there's no need for 'gear changing', this can be heard with the Hitachi-converted 465s, Electrostars and so forth.

Siemens seem to use a musical synthesiser to power their trains! (Youtube Taurus)