barringtoncem
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Had Outwards & Return On 16/9/23 From Huntingdon To Kings X Unit Was Still In GWR Livery Externally And Internally Are Units Being Transferred From Gwr Permantley ?
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Class 387 futures, speculation.
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Yes, the last 3 387s of the GWR fleet (387172 -387174) were deemed surplus on the GWR fleet and were taken off lease, and soon taken into the GTR fleet working out of Kings Cross to East Anglia.
They join 387201 (Gatwick Red) and 387301 -387306 taken from CTC after they were returned to the leasing company as well as the native fleet.
D365
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Rumours, rumours…
Mzzzs
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Aren't the GN 387s getting ETCS fitted so why bring in 379 in when they wont be able to run on the line in few years
Makes more sense to for them to go to southern straight but then from memory southern is not using trains to max
Makes more sense to for them to go to southern straight but then from memory southern is not using trains to max
The Great Northern call for competition required fitment of ETCS equipment by the relevant date. The 379s would need 3rd rail equipment fitted which is probably more challenging than ETCS where the same approach as for 387s could be used.
LiftFan
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How on earth did someone, somewhere, deem any stock whatsoever surplus for GWR? They need all the stock they can get!
To be fair thanks to the cutting of the electrification program there was little those units could be used for, and they did just sit at Reading surplus.
They certainly weren’t just sat surplus, they were in use same as the other members of the fleet. All that happened was the number of working diagrams for the 387 fleet were reduced, this enabled the transfer of the three.
Personally I think that two of them should have had ETCS fitted and re-liveried into Heathrow Express colours to bolster that part of the fleet.
My bad, I was more meaning they were not needed to run the diagrams, and the 387 is one of GWRs more reliable fleets. Their removal will also have helped meet the cost cuts demanded at the time, saving actual services.
Where would the money come from for more trains for HX? I doubt Heathrow would pay more given the same amount of services, so it would be up to GWR and therefore the DfT. I doubt spending public money on the refurbishing and lease of more trains for a service which is very much seen as a premium service, while demanding services across the country are cut, would be quite the unpopular move.
Siemens Staines
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I notice that there was an ECS move from Reading TCD to Ilford this evening. I guess that this was a GWR Class 387 being dragged to Ilford?
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
Realtime Trains | 5Q50 1800 Reading Traincare Depot to Ilford E.M.U.D. | 09/12/2023
Real-time train running information for 5Q50 1800 departure from Reading Traincare Depot to Ilford E.M.U.D. on 09/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
387162 away for overhaul (Overhaul is as much technical detail as I know.)I notice that there was an ECS move from Reading TCD to Ilford this evening. I guess that this was a GWR Class 387 being dragged to Ilford?
Realtime Trains | 5Q50 1800 Reading Traincare Depot to Ilford E.M.U.D. | 09/12/2023
Real-time train running information for 5Q50 1800 departure from Reading Traincare Depot to Ilford E.M.U.D. on 09/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
Sutton in Ant
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Knowing the hot rumour concerning the 379s going to GN and Southern getting the 387s from GN.
Would Southern be getting the 387s in the white livery. 387101 to 387129. I would guess that the 387201 would go back to GX.
But what about the 387/3s. Would they go to Southern Railway as well?
I can guess that the 387172 to 174 may well go back to GWR but then again. I have read that GWR doesn't want them back as they are surplus to requirements?
Would Southern be getting the 387s in the white livery. 387101 to 387129. I would guess that the 387201 would go back to GX.
But what about the 387/3s. Would they go to Southern Railway as well?
I can guess that the 387172 to 174 may well go back to GWR but then again. I have read that GWR doesn't want them back as they are surplus to requirements?
Siemens Staines
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Thank you for the reply. Do you happen to know if this will be a rolling programme of overhauls? I guess this will leave GWR with a fleet of 29 units for the new timetable. Hopefully 387162 will not be gone for as long as 387174 when it went from Reading to Ilford, although I appreciate that the circumstances are totally different.
Is it 'hot'? It isn't clear that Southern would get all the GN 387s. No one has ever indicated how Southern would use them, or given detail of why they need a fleet increase. Remember that there has also been speculation of a transfer of some 377s from Southern to Southeastern if some 387s go to Southern.
GN currently has 38 387s with 387101 away. There aren't 38 379s, so it stands to reason that some 387s need to stay on the GN routes even if 379s came in. It would seem most sensible for those to be the 387/3s.
I think they went to GN to backfill lower availability of the 29 387/1s during overhauls, but they were surplus as a result of service changes on GWR.
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Yes, it is from what I’m led to believe. Poor timing IMO.
Siemens Staines
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Thank You.
Looking at this mornings peak, for the new timetable, and 27 GWR 387s were in use. It is a little difficult to tell whether there are actually 27 diagrams for 29 units because of all of the service interruptions due to infrastructure problems which leads to most 387 operated trains being suspended East of Reading (today being another example). I am no expert, but if it is 27 diagrams for 29 units then that does not leave much wriggle room for anything unplanned, although short-forming is fairly easy to achieve. Something that is not so readily available to their local turbo brethren.
it is indeed 27 from 30! As you say, with 387162 away at Ilford, that certainly doesn't give us much wiggle room. if only there were another 3 green 387s floating around!
Sutton in Ant
Member
Am I right to think that GWR 387s are going to have more surplus stock now and in the future?it is indeed 27 from 30! As you say, with 387162 away at Ilford, that certainly doesn't give us much wiggle room. if only there were another 3 green 387s floating around!
It isn't obvious why more GWR 387s would become spare. The fleet fits the need for 8-car operation on most Paddington to Didcot and Newbury services, plus two 4-car Reading to Newbury shuttles, and some limited peak lengthening.
Definitely not, not in the now. As to the future, doubtful but who knows? Way above my pay grade!
Sutton in Ant
Member
I would have thought that the 387 172 to 174 would be going back to GWR but there were rumours that GWR were going to hand them back as they would no longer be needed by GWR. My impression is that it was nonsense and GWR would be wanting those units back after GN had finished using them.
I do wonder how long GTR wants the GWR ones as they've not yet set up the Wi-Fi to work properly. It still identifies as GWR Wi-Fi, which nobody would care about if it worked, but it doesn't bring up the login screen so you can't use it at all.
GWR would only likely need 387s back from GN if there is some need to run longer peak trains, but the three key departures from Paddington (1720, 1749, 1820) are already 12-car, even with a fleet of 30 387s. Leasing extra trains just for the peak doesn't represent good value.
Wont they be needed when Didcot-Oxford is electrified for intermediate stations not served by IETs?
As far as I’m aware there aren’t any plans for that in the immediate future, I doubt DfT is planning for that.
But I thought electrification was going ahead to Oxford once the bridge work is completed in 2024?
Unless I missed something there has been no recent commitment to that, and in my opinion, as with the work at Bristol, that was just a convenient excuse to cut the electrification short. The station has passive provision for future electrification, but nothing is actually currently planned. If they were planning on electrifying it straight after they would likely have been installing masts up from didcot during the possesions for the station works.
Snow1964
Established Member
Seems DfT is considering replacing GWRs 387s as they have been added to list of trains potentially being replaced (see row 127)
There is a separate thread on Project Churchward (replacement of GWR DMU fleet), but wasn't expecting the 387s to be replaced too
Haven't done the maths but 480 new 24m vehicles must be equivalent to something like 530 20m and 23m vehicles
www.gov.uk
There is a separate thread on Project Churchward (replacement of GWR DMU fleet), but wasn't expecting the 387s to be replaced too
Haven't done the maths but 480 new 24m vehicles must be equivalent to something like 530 20m and 23m vehicles
Future commercial contracts for DfT and partners
Listing of upcoming Department for Transport (DfT) and associated bodies commercial contracts – known as the commercial pipeline – for which bidders may apply.
Two things might factor into that decision.
Firstly, whether the 387s could find a role on the current GTR network should passenger numbers increase over time, and secondly if there was a desire for through stopping services to be restored to Oxford or Bedwyn, which would need more units.
It might be remembered than none of this would happen before the early 2030s, given I imagine 387 replacement might not be first in the queue.
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