Class 390 Pendolino for Scrap?

[whhistle]

From: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/wcml-intercity-franchise.181406/

I believe Alstom is currently working hard to reduce the costs of the expensive Pendolino fleet as some of the bidders had considered them too expensive, and it was rumoured that some were looking as possibly dumping them - such is the climate of cheaper newer rolling stock these days!

That's going to be very interesting, especially if whoever wins dumps the Pendolino fleet in the future.

The question is, would they go for scrap or be used elsewhere (Scotrail?).
Can't think of many lines that would be able to use them apart from open access operators, and only if they can afford them.

 

[hexagon789]

From: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/wcml-intercity-franchise.181406/







The question is, would they go for scrap or be used elsewhere (Scotrail?).
Can't think of many lines that would be able to use them apart from open access operators, and only if they can afford them.

I sincerely doubt ScotRail would get them. Too long for a start. There's not really much use for them other than on their original route to be fair, though GNER did propose some for the ECML many years back.

 

[gazthomas]

This be commercial bravado of course, buy they're not far off 20 years old and they've had a very highly utilised life so in my mind scrapping wouldn't be an unrealistic option. In some countries, taking Japan at the extreme it is not unusual for 20 years to be a reasonable asset life. We would have been rid of the Pacers a long, long time ago if it was the case here!

 

[Meerkat]

Pendolinos are 140mph capable - are they too slow accelerating (and wrong door layout) for adding HS1 capacity?
It’s the only electrified main line I can think of that doesn’t have new trains on the way!

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Pendolinos are 140mph capable - are they too slow accelerating (and wrong door layout) for adding HS1 capacity?
It’s the only electrified main line I can think of that doesn’t have new trains on the way!

But wasn't the WCML the only franchise in the early 2000's that saw all of its existing fleet replaced? The other franchises have stock from 90's and 80's.

 

[Whistler40145]

Pendolinos are 140mph capable - are they too slow accelerating (and wrong door layout) for adding HS1 capacity?
It’s the only electrified main line I can think of that doesn’t have new trains on the way!

Another problem with Pendolinos, they aren't capable of Selective Door Opening, so they are unable to stop at stations where the platforms aren't long enough

 

[The Planner]

Another problem with Pendolinos, they aren't capable of Selective Door Opening, so they are unable to stop at stations where the platforms aren't long enough

Yes they are if the balises are (or at least were) there in the track. Certain platforms on the WCML have them if disruption occurs. @driver_m should be able to clarify.

 

[Whistler40145]

Yes they are if the balises are (or at least were) there in the track. Certain platforms on the WCML have them if disruption occurs. @driver_m should be able to clarify.

Many thanks

 

[Iskra]

Open access could use them from Blackpool, or on other routes.

 

[Whistler40145]

Open access could use them from Blackpool, or on other routes.

They could if offered them

 

[driver_m]

Yes they are if the balises are (or at least were) there in the track. Certain platforms on the WCML have them if disruption occurs. @driver_m should be able to clarify.

They’ve got SDO in use on 11 car sets and it specifically works with balises for certain platforms and can knock out 2 or 3 coaches. In practice I think it only ever gets regular usage at Haymarket, which I don’t sign. However, all sets have a manually selective option to knock out the back coaches.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Sadly there is the ‘big idea’ of taking all the TASS / tilt off them and the rest of the WCML and turning it back into a 110mph railway. Not only does it save on cost, but the increased journey times push more people onto HS2.

Realistically, it is a very sorry state of affairs that the existing Network left afternoon HS2 from Euston via the Trent Valley and Coventry will be so shafted as the Government seeks to desperately claw back money from its vanity project.

 

[Ianno87]

Sadly there is the ‘big idea’ of taking all the TASS / tilt off them and the rest of the WCML and turning it back into a 110mph railway. Not only does it save on cost, but the increased journey times push more people onto HS2.

Realistically, it is a very sorry state of affairs that the existing Network left afternoon HS2 from Euston via the Trent Valley and Coventry will be so shafted as the Government seeks to desperately claw back money from its vanity project.

Pretty sure that is not an official strategy post-HS2.

 

[The Planner]

Sadly there is the ‘big idea’ of taking all the TASS / tilt off them and the rest of the WCML and turning it back into a 110mph railway. Not only does it save on cost, but the increased journey times push more people onto HS2.

Realistically, it is a very sorry state of affairs that the existing Network left afternoon HS2 from Euston via the Trent Valley and Coventry will be so shafted as the Government seeks to desperately claw back money from its vanity project.

Where has that been said? Like I have posted previously there has been no talk of that. It won't save in maintenance either as the track category stays the same.

 

[swt_passenger]

Sadly there is the ‘big idea’ of taking all the TASS / tilt off them and the rest of the WCML and turning it back into a 110mph railway. Not only does it save on cost, but the increased journey times push more people onto HS2.

Realistically, it is a very sorry state of affairs that the existing Network left afternoon HS2 from Euston via the Trent Valley and Coventry will be so shafted as the Government seeks to desperately claw back money from its vanity project.

You seem to be confusing your own ideas with facts...

 

[londonteacher]

I think they should go to LNR once/if HS2 opens to expand their services on the WCML.

 

[Bungle965]

They’ve got SDO in use on 11 car sets and it specifically works with balises for certain platforms and can knock out 2 or 3 coaches. In practice I think it only ever gets regular usage at Haymarket, which I don’t sign. However, all sets have a manually selective option to knock out the back coaches.

Coventry, Rugby, Haymarket and Wilmslow are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head.
Sam

 

[whhistle]

I sincerely doubt ScotRail would get them. Too long for a start.

Sorry, I would have thought it obvious they could be shortened.
I'll make sure I mention this next time.

 

[hexagon789]

Sorry, I would have thought it obvious they could be shortened.
I'll make sure I mention this next time.

Can they? They sometimes distribute various pieces of equipment throughout seperate vehicles of the train which doesn't always mean that it's possible to do so.

Certainly when the extended some sets from 9-car they couldn't go to 10-car it had to be 11.

 

[Aictos]

I think they should go to LNR once/if HS2 opens to expand their services on the WCML.

I don’t agree as they be used on the residual IC services on the WCML which you will need them for and besides LNR is getting a new fleet of trains so they have no need for the Class 390s.

Keeping the Class 390s where they are might mean a second London to Edinburgh via Birmingham so a hourly service instead of a 2 hourly service or even 1tp2h throughout the day to Blackpool.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Scrapping trains less than 20 years old would have the imcumbent party torn to shreds by the press.

 

[Peter Kelford]

Maybe the 390s could get sent abroad? As far as I know, the majority of continental services in the 160km/h to 250 km/h bracket are loco-hauled and could do with cascading.

 

[hexagon789]

Scrapping trains less than 20 years old would have the imcumbent party torn to shreds by the press.

It's been done before

 

[NoMorePacers]

It's been done before

The utterly useless and short-lived 1983 Tube Stock for instance?

 

[hexagon789]

The utterly useless and short-lived 1983 Tube Stock for instance?

I was thinking something else, but that works I guess!

 

[NoMorePacers]

Oh yeah, the Class 460. Nearly forgot about those.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The utterly useless and short-lived 1983 Tube Stock for instance?

Pendolinos aren't useless, though, they are very good at what they do. The thing is, though, that they are only really good at that - a bit like classic Eurostars. So I would not expect to see them moved anywhere else, they will live out their lives on the WCML, however long that may be, then they will go for scrap.

 

[NoMorePacers]

Pendolinos aren't useless, though, they are very good at what they do. The thing is, though, that they are only really good at that - a bit like classic Eurostars. So I would not expect to see them moved anywhere else, they will live out their lives on the WCML, however long that may be, then they will go for scrap.

Yeah, I think that is the situation here.

 

[hexagon789]

Pendolinos aren't useless, though, they are very good at what they do. The thing is, though, that they are only really good at that - a bit like classic Eurostars. So I would not expect to see them moved anywhere else, they will live out their lives on the WCML, however long that may be, then they will go for scrap.

Yes, they were designed for one route and that route specifically. The flexibility of something like an HST just isn't there.

I wonder if they'll be scrapped sooner than other comparable fleets because they lack a potential to be used elsewhere readily.

 

[Bungle965]

Pendolinos aren't useless, though, they are very good at what they do. The thing is, though, that they are only really good at that - a bit like classic Eurostars. So I would not expect to see them moved anywhere else, they will live out their lives on the WCML, however long that may be, then they will go for scrap.

A bit pedantic here but one classic Eurostar set is used by Izy between Paris and Brussels.
Sam