Class 458

[RobShipway]

I heard a rumour that the Class 460 coaches when not required by Southern for the Gatwick Express service would move to South West Trains with the coaches strengthing the coaches in the Class 458's?

Is this still true and when is it likely to happen?

The reason I ask is that I have been on a course in London this week, and travelling on the class 458's and just lucky enough to be on the 6:35 from Martins Heron to be able to get a seat so that I don't have to stand, but by Richmond everyone is standing that enters the train. These trains need to be 12 car rather than 8 car trains now. Come on South West Trains start using common sense please.

 

[Fincra5]

Yes that is most likely. Because of the stupid idea of replacing stock (class 460s) desgined for airport use with trains desgined for intercity express workings.

 

[Helvellyn]

These trains need to be 12 car rather than 8 car trains now. Come on South West Trains start using common sense please.

Well back in the eraly 2000s when Stagecoach was award a 20-year franchise for SWT, and it ordered the Desiros, it was planned that there would be 100 4-car 450/0s for outer suburban work and 32 5-car 450/2s for inner suburban work on the Windsor Line (Hounslow Rounders/Weybridge via Brentford/Windsor via Richmond) services. The SRA decided this wasn't going to happen. SWT ended up with a franchise extension rather than the 20-year franchise. The 450 fleet became 110 4-car 450s, with the remaining 120 vehicles becoming the 30 Class 350/1 units for use on West Coast semi-fast services by Central and Silverlink (now all with London Midland).

SWT's current franchise includes a commitment to now introduce this 10-car railway on the Windsor Lines as part of moves to generally upgrade capacity on inner suburban routes. Before the recession this might actually have seen 12-car trains introduced. However, I've heard that due to the economy this is now likely to be back to a 10-car railway, though the Reading services (currently operated by Class 458s) will remain 8-car.

The rumour about the 460s going to SWT comes from the fact that tenders have been invited for the stock to operate the expanded Windsor Line services, and it stated specifically that it did not have to be new build. This means that Porterbrook (and likely with involvement from Alstom) could put forward a proposal to re-engineer the 458s and 460s to provide 30-34 5-car units. The High Capacity 450s would likely have First Class reinsated and be used alongside the rest of the 450 fleet, with Reading service sbeing 459 operated yet again.

Nothing is certain yet as to what would happen, but if Stagecaoch had got its 20-year franchise you'd have 10-car trains on the Windsor Lines, and likely a rebuilt (and or nealy rebuilt) Clapham Junction, possibly on a new site (nearer to London), another proposal that was in the 20-year bid. As it is even going to a 10-car railway on the Windsor Lines will require platforms to be lengthed at all stations, and in fact at Chertsey and Isleworth this won't be possible, so SDO will remain in use. Virginia Water (Weybridge branch platforms) will also be an interesting one due to the curvature.

 

[royaloak]

These trains need to be 12 car rather than 8 car trains now. Come on South West Trains start using common sense please.

Oh yeah good idea, put 12 coach trains with no through gangway onto services that call at stations only 8 coaches long.
How do you propose people get on and off the rear 4 coaches?
Its the same as the bombed out 10 coach idea, the stations are not long enough, and until they are lengthened the maximum length will stay at 8 coaches.

 

[Andrew]

The 6.35 at Martin's Heron is from Reading. There, platforms 4A/4B are *just* long enough for 8 coaches. Anything longer would block the other platform's access, even if you could walk through to those coaches. Not SWT's fault. After Reading's remodelling, and platform extensions elsewhere it sounds like, then you may have a point.

 

[RobShipway]

Aren't there plans though in the rebuild of Reading to move platforms 4a/4b further down from where they are currently situated and lengthen the platforms so that they can fit 12 car trains? If not then those doing the plans to redesign Reading station should be thinking along those lines.

 

[asylumxl]

Yes that is most likely. Because of the stupid idea of replacing stock (class 460s) desgined for airport use with trains desgined for intercity express workings.

Couldn't agree more!

 

[royaloak]

Aren't there plans though in the rebuild of Reading to move platforms 4a/4b further down from where they are currently situated and lengthen the platforms so that they can fit 12 car trains? If not then those doing the plans to redesign Reading station should be thinking along those lines.

There are plans for another platform beside 4A/B, but the Waterloos will go under the Paddington lines and come up on the widened slow side, the dive under is already there just not used anymore.