Class 484 replacing class 483 on the island line: progress updates

[py_megapixel]

PIS pods are unchanged, but it has TrainFX up in the cab, so they've either frigged it to work with the Focon system or replaced it.

Looking at the 230s on the Marston Vale it seems that they have bodged a TFX display into the housing of the old London Underground PIS. I suspect they'll do the same here.

 

[Bletchleyite]

When I went for a ride on a 230 on the Marston Vale Line the guard told me that the wheelchair accessible door did not have guards door controls so she had to walk back and forth between doors to deal with a passenger in a wheelchair. Hopefully this is a problem which will be rectified on newer trains.

The doors seem one of the key issues with them in just about every way. Operation is so slow that despite their excellent acceleration they lose time on Class 150/153 schedules on the Marston Vale. They seem to have been both slowed down and had the closing retarder removed so they slam horribly and shake the vehicle as they do, as well as release being very slow. LNR guards have been working around this by working from the cabs instead of the saloon, as the smaller cab door opens and closes more quickly, but this means losing revenue. It really needs fixing and I hope the 484s have it fixed from day one.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Looking at the 230s on the Marston Vale it seems that they have bodged a TFX display into the housing of the old London Underground PIS. I suspect they'll do the same here.

The PIS on the MV units is extremely poor quality - flickery and hard to read.

Indeed, so are a lot of things about the units, unfortunately - the lighting is another - cheap blue-coloured LED tubes rather than proper fittings. I think a lot of corners have been cut to make them sufficiently cheaper than new-build.

The pics I've seen suggest you're also getting the bizarre bodged gangway setup, which involves keeping the existing door (surrounded by a UIC style tubular rubber baffle) but replacing the existing robust handle with two things - a cheaper, larger manual handle, and a bizarre "push button to unlock" thing next to the door which everyone ignores and uses the handle. No doubt it's compliant to the letter of PRM TSI, but it's just weird, unreliable and overall a stupid piece of non-design.

 

[py_megapixel]

The doors seem one of the key issues with them in just about every way. Operation is so slow that despite their excellent acceleration they lose time on Class 150/153 schedules on the Marston Vale. They seem to have been both slowed down and had the closing retarder removed so they slam horribly and shake the vehicle as they do, as well as release being very slow. LNR guards have been working around this by working from the cabs instead of the saloon, as the smaller cab door opens and closes more quickly, but this means losing revenue. It really needs fixing and I hope the 484s have it fixed from day one.

This seems completely daft because one of the "selling points" of the D78s from day one was quick door operation wasn't it?
Do they have the same nasty screechy door open/close tones as the rerfurbed Sprinters?

 

[Bletchleyite]

This seems completely daft because one of the "selling points" of the D78s from day one was quick door operation wasn't it?

It was, and it's an utter failure, the doors are far slower than any existing UK DMU, even the Class 153 which is probably the slowest ex-BR DMU.

Even the panels are awkwardly positioned, facing into the coach rather than sideways, so the guard has to go out, do their check, fully reboard to find the close button, press it and go back out again, that seems minor but it costs a good couple of seconds per station, and on local stopping services seconds count.

If the door speed was the same as on LU and driver release had been used, and the button went green as soon as open was pressed[1], I reckon you'd easily get 5 minutes off an end to end MV run, as it is they lose time badly on existing 15x schedules, and this is the main reason for it.

[1] The slight delay probably loses about 5 seconds per stop, as the passenger presses it, nothing happens, then they wait a few seconds before trying again. Again, minor poor design costs valuable seconds. This seems to be adjustable in some way, as not all three units have the same length of pause.

Do they have the same nasty screechy door open/close tones as the rerfurbed Sprinters?

I can't remember to be honest.

 

[py_megapixel]

It was, and it's an utter failure, the doors are far slower than any existing UK DMU, even the Class 153 which is probably the slowest ex-BR DMU.

Do you mean it was a failure when they were still operating on LU, or only after the conversion process?

Even the panels are awkwardly positioned, facing into the coach rather than sideways, so the guard has to go out, do their check, fully reboard to find the close button, press it and go back out again, that seems minor but it costs a good couple of seconds per station, and on local stopping services seconds count.

Looking at a D78 where else is there to put it? The walls either side of the doors are made of glass.

Overall I think it's just too much to expect that 30-year-old electric metro rolling stock can be cheaply converted to operate with diesel engines on the mainline railway with all the differing procedures and conventions, and with no corners cut. Not having encountered one myself I can't account for everything, but my opinion at the moment is that new build would have been a better option.

Though, the island line ones are pure electric. That could possibly make a difference to how well the conversion procedure goes.

 

[Bob Price]

Progress. The TfW build has completed two so far 006 and 007, with 8 & 9 well advanced. Work has started on 010 as well. I would expect work on the first 484 to start soon. However they are due to move to a new site soon so this may delay things.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Does anyone know how the 484 build is getting on? There seems to be no information that I can find. The first two of the class 230s for TfW are now being tested running from Long Marston to Stourbridge and back and they are also being built by Vivarail. The lasted news that I have seen is that the 484s will be delayed until September 2020.

I was wondering if this movement yesterday from Long Marston to Eastleigh could have been a class 484 movement as the Cotswold Line does not have third rail.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K04004/2020-06-06/detailed

Does occur to me that testing of 484s at Marston Vale will be difficult unless Vivarail go to the expense of installing some 3rd rail !. My hope is that the 484s are produced with only very minor alterations from D78s. Either that or I suppose they could be tested coupled to a coach from a 230 ?.

 

[Bob Price]

They are moving from Long Maston and all the testing was due to move to the Barry railway centre. Can't see where the 484's will be tested unless they use a spare branch somewhere.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do you mean it was a failure when they were still operating on LU, or only after the conversion process?

No, they were fine on LU, they have been slowed down and had the retarder (if that's the term - the thing that "catches" them just before closure to stop the slam) removed on the 230s. Slower than other LU stock due to being single-leaf, but not slow overall, certainly comparable to a Class 150 or similar.

Looking at a D78 where else is there to put it? The walls either side of the doors are made of glass.

There would surely be a way to bolt a box on somewhere to contain it.

Overall I think it's just too much to expect that 30-year-old electric metro rolling stock can be cheaply converted to operate with diesel engines on the mainline railway with all the differing procedures and conventions, and with no corners cut. Not having encountered one myself I can't account for everything, but my opinion at the moment is that new build would have been a better option.

Probably so. That said, the conversion is much simpler for the Island Line and station stop performance isn't key as there aren't that many stops, so they may well work better there than they have on the MV, where really the best fix would have been to bite the bullet and extend the platforms/move the signals (as is going to have to be done for EWR anyway) and use a pair of 2-car Class 172s, or do a stock shuffle to free up 3 x Class 150 from either Northern or GWR.

 

[DavidGrain]

That movement was a pair of 319s being dragged for some conversion work at Eastleigh (see separate thread)

Thank you

 

[D365]

Does anyone know how the 484 build is getting on? There seems to be no information that I can find. The first two of the class 230s for TfW are now being tested running from Long Marston to Stourbridge and back and they are also being built by Vivarail. The lasted news that I have seen is that the 484s will be delayed until September 2020.

Vivarail won't make any announcements until the first unit is complete.

 

[Nym]

Looking at the 230s on the Marston Vale it seems that they have bodged a TFX display into the housing of the old London Underground PIS. I suspect they'll do the same here.

Is actually quite a versitile pod that was fitted on D78s, it's a frame with a valence on the outside of it.

 

[Bob Price]

Vivarail won't make any announcements until the first unit is complete.

Indeed. They will be built at the new Southam unit and photos will come when they are underway. Think the TfW ones will be the final act at Long Maston before they move premises.

 

[Chris125]

These can't come too soon, train faults this month have disrupted Island Line services on the 3rd, 6th, 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th and 15th (today).

 

[Nickporter]

Don’t suppose anyone has heard any new dates for delivery to the island, want to ride them once again but due to work can’t do until September and hope that’s not too late.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Don’t suppose anyone has heard any new dates for delivery to the island, want to ride them once again but due to work can’t do until September and hope that’s not too late.

You have plenty of time. In the original plan, bearing in mind this is at least a few months delayed, 1938 stocks were only due to be removed from service in March 2021.

See the original timetable here

 

[DavidGrain]

As far as we are aware the new trains have not yet started to be built yet so I think you can expect to ride on the old trains next summer if they can be kept running.

 

[Bob Price]

Vivarail are moving to their new factory in Southam and they will start building them once they do. They have 3 more TfW ones to finish first

 

[Journeyman]

Although obviously the availability of the new trains is the most significant issue, bear in mind that the old ones could crumble into dust at any moment.

 

[fgwrich]

As far as we are aware the new trains have not yet started to be built yet so I think you can expect to ride on the old trains next summer if they can be kept running.

I'm afraid they have! I've put the link below of the latest pictures from Peter Tandy for what is possibly the 4th body shell in SWR Battleship Grey.

http://www.petertandy.co.uk/165027_484_LM_180720

 

[py_megapixel]

I'm afraid they have! I've put the link below of the latest pictures from Peter Tandy for what is possibly the 4th body shell in SWR Battleship Grey.

http://www.petertandy.co.uk/165027_484_LM_180720

Battleship Grey seems to me that it would be better named as Unimaginative White

 

[Journeyman]

Battleship Grey seems to me that it would be better named as Unimaginative White

It's a really boring, gloomy livery.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Battleship Grey seems to me that it would be better named as Unimaginative White

I quite like the version with the stripes, but the white/grey version is typically FirstGroup dull.

 

[D365]

I'm afraid they have! I've put the link below of the latest pictures from Peter Tandy for what is possibly the 4th body shell in SWR Battleship Grey.

http://www.petertandy.co.uk/165027_484_LM_180720

Correct; Viva have been putting coaches through the Long Marston paintshop.

 

[D7666]

As far as we are aware the new trains have not yet started to be built yet so I think you can expect to ride on the old trains next summer if they can be kept running.

As far as we are aware the new trains were all built some time from 1978 to 1980 (the 78 from D78 meaning 1978). IOW is getting old trains rebuilt.

 

[Metal_gee_man]

As far as we are aware the new trains were all built some time from 1978 to 1980 (the 78 from D78 meaning 1978). IOW is getting old trains rebuilt.

Aluminium Bodyshells well before it's peers, new bogies that are 10-15 years old, brand new desks, controls, obvs new engines electronics fixtures and fittings. Yeah it's really old

They are basically Triggers broom from only fools and horses

 

[D7666]

Aluminium Bodyshells well before it's peers, new bogies that are 10-15 years old, brand new desks, controls, obvs new engines electronics fixtures and fittings. Yeah it's really old

They are basically Triggers broom from only fools and horses

Keyword in question was "built" which is why I highlighted it in red.

 

[Nym]

Aluminium Bodyshells well before it's peers, new bogies that are 10-15 years old, brand new desks, controls, obvs new engines electronics fixtures and fittings. Yeah it's really old

They are basically Triggers broom from only fools and horses

Doesn't help with the steel outer longs that they're significantly altering the loading profile of and probably haven't even glanced at the fracture maps of before starting to cut equipment away and drill new holes....?

 

[DelW]

The Isle of Wight's railway rolling stock has often wholly or partly consisted of vehicles made redundant from London, not just the ex LU trains but going back into the steam era. Even the Terriers started their lives in London suburban service.

I do find it amusing that several of the steam locos on the IoWSR are newer than the electric trains on Island Line, though not for much longer.