Class 503 disposal

[Northerngirl]

Been reported by rail advent that the only remaining class 503 is to be desposed of, what a devastating loss, can't help but think if they had publicised any information at all then there would be more support

End of the line for Class 503 Wirral train

It has been decided that the restoration of the three-car Class 503 'Wirral' EMU will not be pursued.

www.railadvent.co.uk

 

[Ashley Hill]

Such a shame. Even cosmetic restoration seems out of the question for the whole set. Still,let’s preserve yet another pacer….

 

[prod_pep]

The Heritage Electric Trains Trust (HETT) has today announced that two of the preserved Class 503's carriages are to be scrapped, with only the driving motor coach to survive (28690). This coach will be moved to an unspecified alternative site, with the other two stripped for spares and scrapped.

There was an air of inevitability about this announcement given the group had gone quiet about the 503 since last summer, but what a crying shame nonetheless. Barring a last-minute miracle from an interested party, a very rare example of a complete pre-war EMU is about to be lost. Yes, the EMU is in appalling condition following years of gross neglect, but these units are still remembered with great affection in these parts and today is a sad day. I'm sure a lot of us would save it in a heartbeat if we had the resources and wherewithal.

For what it's worth, I did not donate towards to the 503 despite giving serious consideration to becoming an HETT 'gold supporter'. There was no clear way of guaranteeing the membership money would go exclusively towards the 503, and as the 4-SUB holds not the tiniest soupcon of personal interest, I didn't sign up given the costs involved. Others obviously felt the same too.

At least the driving motor is set to live on, for now.

The full statement is available on the Class 503 Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/503unit.

 

[507 001]

For what it's worth, I did not donate towards to the 503 despite giving serious consideration to becoming an HETT 'gold supporter'. There was no clear way of guaranteeing the membership money would go exclusively towards the 503, and as the 4-SUB holds not the tiniest soupcon of personal interest, I didn't sign up given the costs involved. Others obviously felt the same too.

This was exactly why I didn’t donate, there was no way of telling where your money was going. The whole thing hasn’t exactly been handled brilliantly.

 

[StephenHunter]

Such a shame. Even cosmetic restoration seems out of the question for the whole set. Still,let’s preserve yet another pacer….

Pacers can be used on heritage lines with a lot less work.

 

[507021]

What a dreadful shame, especially after surviving this long as a complete unit.

 

[SERA01UK]

Surviving of sorts….

Been an absolute nightmare at times.

You can read the story (written six months ago) of its time in preservation here:

http://www.4sub4732.co.uk/downloads/503/4Sub_TheContactor06_503_Pages.pdf

 

[Orange Box]

So LSL are kicking it out is the short version?

 

[43096]

So LSL are kicking it out is the short version?

Reading that link above says otherwise. The reality is that there has been next to no support (either practical or financial) for it. People can pontificate as much as they want but if they do actually nothing this is what happens.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Pacers can be used on heritage lines with a lot less work.

Whilst I am not in anyway against Pacer preservation there are perhaps a few too many. The 503 is now unique whilst Pacers are not. I hold a similar view with steam,why preserve yet another Prairie or Hall from Barry when D6122 or one of the D600s could have preserved?

 

[prod_pep]

Surviving of sorts….

Been an absolute nightmare at times.

You can read the story (written six months ago) of its time in preservation here:

http://www.4sub4732.co.uk/downloads/503/4Sub_TheContactor06_503_Pages.pdf

It's a grave shame this article wasn't made clearer on the 503 Facebook page at the time. I've been a member of that page for years and wasn't aware the situation was so dire. Two months just doesn't leave any would-be saviours enough time to rescue the condemned carriages.

 

[M28361M]

Unfortunately the 503 is a victim of wibble-itis, a common condition in railway circles where armchair experts try to "help" by coming up with completely impractical ideas or just having a good old moan.

Whenever the 503 people post something on their page, there is a flurry of comments saying "someone should do something" - but by 'someone' they invariably mean 'someone else'. I appreciate that not everyone has money to splash around on preservation projects, especially in the current climate. But there are 988 people following the Class 503 page on Facebook. If just 5% of them had donated £10 per month, the unit would be fully funded and its future secure.

I hope this serves as a wake-up call. Nobody is riding to the rescue of your favourite train. If you want something preserved - especially something like the 503 which is always going to be a niche interest - you can't sit on the sidelines waiting for someone else to do it. You need to put your money where your mouth is.

The 503's cousin, the Southport/Ormskirk class 502, is sitting securely at Burscough and is being actively restored. It doesn't have many supporters, but it has enough to keep the project afloat.

 

[L401CJF]

Massive shame given it has managed to survive as a full unit for all these years, however it does indeed to appear have done only that - survived and nothing else. I dread to imagine the money it would need throwing at it to be brought up to even a solid, presentable condition for static display only.

At the end of the day if there is nobody willing to put the money where their mouth is then it was inevitable - arguably much better to have 1 coach saved properly than none at all.

I've been involved in bus preservation for the last 10 years or so, and that's expensive enough let alone a full unit that wants rebuilding!

 

[Brush 4]

EMU's do get the worst treatment of any of the traction groups. Dumped in airfields, industrial estates, pubs, then split up with inner carriages scrapped. LSL have the money, their umbrella organisation has revived a Scotrail push-pull with 47 and also a bubble car. They could fund this but have decided not to......so far.

 

[Ianigsy]

The last complete 503 will still last longer than the last complete 508….

Sad to see- it’s strange that in spite of Liverpool’s role in railway history, that doesn’t translate into preserving the heritage. That said, the Royal Iris has been falling to bits somewhere in London for decades and nobody has ever managed to do anything about that.

Anybody would think that nothing happened on Merseyside before Bill Shankly joined Liverpool in 1959.

 

[eldomtom2]

The need for a proper site devoted solely to preserving and displaying electric railway heritage rears its head again. I again float my idea for overhead DC electrification...

 

[John Luxton]

When one thinks back to the 1980s when both the heritage 502 and 503 units were still in running order allowing both to decay from restored state was nothing short of criminal in the first place.

Given that the former Mersey Railway Depot at Birkenhead Central has lain unused for decades not only could the shed there have kept them safe and under cover it could have been used as a basis of an electric railway museum for other stock.

Lack of forsight.

 

[bluegoblin7]

Lack of forsight.

Presumably you’ve got a savings account with a few thousand quid in it then from your own foresight…?

 

[alistairlees]

Whenever the 503 people post something on their page, there is a flurry of comments saying "someone should do something" - but by 'someone' they invariably mean 'someone else'. I appreciate that not everyone has money to splash around on preservation projects, especially in the current climate. But there are 988 people following the Class 503 page on Facebook. If just 5% of them had donated £10 per month, the unit would be fully funded and its future secure.

Are you saying you just need £500 a month?

 

[8A Rail]

EMU's do get the worst treatment of any of the traction groups. Dumped in airfields, industrial estates, pubs, then split up with inner carriages scrapped. LSL have the money, their umbrella organisation has revived a Scotrail push-pull with 47 and also a bubble car. They could fund this but have decided not to......so far.

This is NOTHING to do with LSL other than they offered 'temporary' accommodation for the three car unit, so why should they fund it? As a whole LSL is commercial operation partly funded by a wealthy man.

When one thinks back to the 1980s when both the heritage 502 and 503 units were still in running order allowing both to decay from restored state was nothing short of criminal in the first place.

Given that the former Mersey Railway Depot at Birkenhead Central has lain unused for decades not only could the shed there have kept them safe and under cover it could have been used as a basis of an electric railway museum for other stock.

Lack of forsight.

That I totally agree, the opportunity was there (and still is subject to money of course) and also allowed the possibility of the Units remaining in operational condition too had people really thought and done something about it. Alas ...... !

In reading the HETT statement, I think HETT have taken the only decision they could make with the 'bonus' that least one third of the Unit will remain. It is hoped that DBMS that gets inside cover rather than another tarpaulin over it in the outdoors, otherwise it will rot beyond repair especially when mention of the 'next decade'. Looking back on the history of the 'preserved' Class 503 unit, there were at least three (or more) mistakes over the years with attempting to safeguard the Class 503 but hindsight is a wonderful thing though!

 

[Bertie the bus]

The need for a proper site devoted solely to preserving and displaying electric railway heritage rears its head again. I again float my idea for overhead DC electrification...

Floating ideas doesn't get anything done. Get your cheque book out if you want EMUs preserved and operating.

 

[CaramellDansen]

This was exactly why I didn’t donate, there was no way of telling where your money was going. The whole thing hasn’t exactly been handled brilliantly.

It seems the cart may have been put before the horse here.
Having most of the funds be directed to the 4-SUB seems to have doomed the 503, intentionally or otherwise; if there was no possible way to donate to have it saved, of course nobody did!!
If there were separate pools for each project, determining a lack of interest or funds for the unit's demise could at least be somewhat legitimate.

 

[eldomtom2]

Floating ideas doesn't get anything done. Get your cheque book out if you want EMUs preserved and operating.

Only a fool would say the current system is perfect except for lack of money...

 

[CaramellDansen]

The reality is that there has been next to no support (either practical or financial) for it. People can pontificate as much as they want but if they do actually nothing this is what happens.

If the allocation of funds was controlled by the organisation, this is their doing and not ours. #22 is relevant.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Only a fool would say the current system is perfect except for lack of money...

Off you go then. Actually do something instead of floating ideas.

 

[SERA01UK]

It seems the cart may have been put before the horse here.
Having most of the funds be directed to the 4-SUB seems to have doomed the 503, intentionally or otherwise; if there was no possible way to donate to have it saved, of course nobody did!!
If there were separate pools for each project, determining a lack of interest or funds for the unit's demise could at least be somewhat legitimate.

Ok let’s make a couple of things straight. HETT is well aware of where the donations come from, it’s a registered charity, and also which project the donor supports. I can tell you now that the SUB supporters outnumber the 503 supporters on a ratio of about 9 to 1, there was a common pot for the monthly running costs of the charity, the bulk of which is the storage charge for the use of the facility at Margate.

Now the SUB is moving into a restoration phase the pots have to be separate and it is an unfortunate fact that the complete 503 could no longer afford to stay in storage (anywhere) as its direct income will only cover basic costs for one vehicle. The SUB on the other hand has a very good bunch of people contributing to pay its bills and some extra towards the restoration pot. It’s not a case of ‘all the funds have been directed at the SUB’ more a case of 90% of the funds were donated in favour of the SUB.

 

[M28361M]

Are you saying you just need £500 a month?

It's a very rough estimate. Back in January 2020 HETT posted on the 503 page that they needed 5 Gold, 10 Silver and 25 Bronze subscriptions to cover the costs of storage and provide funds for restoration. That is 5x30 + 10x20 + 25x10 = 600. Don't do any restoration work and you can knock off maybe £100. For basic outdoor storage and no restoration it would be even less than that.

Now the SUB is moving into a restoration phase the pots have to be separate and it is an unfortunate fact that the complete 503 could no longer afford to stay in storage (anywhere) as its direct income will only cover basic costs for one vehicle. The SUB on the other hand has a very good bunch of people contributing to pay its bills and some extra towards the restoration pot.

Might be a daft question, but is there still scope to reverse the decision to scrap, if (and it's a big if) the unit's fans are spurred into action and suddenly decide to open their wallets?

 

[SERA01UK]

Might be a daft question, but is there still scope to reverse the decision to scrap, if (and it's a big if) the unit's fans are spurred into action and suddenly decide to open their wallets?

Not a daft question at all, but hard economics at play here.

Find me a site willing to take - let’s not sugar coat it, a three car demic wreck - at a price then find the people to underwrite that cost and donate it monthly. That’s the bare minimum for survival - that’s not restoration we’re talking, just continuing existence.

 

[m79900]

Makes you wonder about the futures of the 313/315/507 preservation projects doesn't it?

 

[notverydeep]

Presumably you’ve got a savings account with a few thousand quid in it then from your own foresight…?

There are a number of UK Museums that have been publically funded over a long period and whose remit was to preserve railway heritage in a broad sense, the NRM clearly being the most notable, though there are several others. Belief that it is a good idea for the UK to have publicly funded heritage institutions that continue to collect examples of that heritage as time passes is not unreasonable. Nor is it unreasonable, to regard it as shortsighted that this in the last few decades this hasn't been happening.

The existing number of historic electric rail vehicles that represent a large number of people's every day experience of rail travel in times past is already small and the loss of some of the few that do remain, but that are not commercially viable to operate as heritage asset (compared to say a restored steam locomotive) is very regrettable. As the publicly owned museums have at best stagnated or at worst struggled with diminished funding, thankfully many individuals and groups are trying to fill this gap with their efforts and donations and is completely understandable that they don't have unlimited resources for this.

Now more or less no one expects that 'amenity' could or should be maintained at least in part collectively by public bodies, even though this would have been taken for granted as recently as the 1960s and 1970s. But at least we pay less tax now. Oh wait...