Class 507 preservation society.

[m79900]

https://www.class507.org.uk/

This group has been set up to preserve 507001, and no offence to the 315 pres group, seem to be clearer with their intentions and more realistic and forward thinking with their plans. They state they are in talks with angel trains, and are currently looking for a home on a heritage railway, and as backup, a temporary storage site as well. This could be one to watch out for.

 

[StephenHunter]

In terms of the 315 group, there appears to be a serious issue there; one of their founding members is suspected of embezzling funds, with the authorities now involved.

 

[43096]

https://www.class507.org.uk/

This group has been set up to preserve 507001, and no offence to the 315 pres group, seem to be clearer with their intentions and more realistic and forward thinking with their plans. They state they are in talks with angel trains, and are currently looking for a home on a heritage railway, and as backup, a temporary storage site as well. This could be one to watch out for.

Another lastminute.com preservation bid...

The chances of success are greatly increased if the preservation group has spent time building up support (financial, volunteers and contacts) ahead of a preservation bid. 6 months ahead of planned withdrawal is a huge task, even moreso give it is an EMU (and we know the history of EMU preservation). Good luck, though.

 

[47434]

Given the 315 group wrote to pretty much every Pres Line in the UK to try and secure a home, I worry for the success of this bid.

 

[DarloRich]

Surely you say you will persevere an example of class 507 rather than a specific unit - what happens IF 507001 is rotten but 5070098 is in tip top condition coming out of service?

 

[lrailadventure]

Surely you say you will persevere an example of class 507 rather than a specific unit - what happens IF 507001 is rotten but 5070098 is in tip top condition coming out of service?

They have already addressed that on the page, assuming good reason extends to quality of train.

Note that although 507001 has been identified as the ideal unit to preserve, this may change if there is a good reason to take another unit instead.

But 507001 was one of the last units to undergo overhaul and now has the special livery on it, it could be an ideal candidate for preservation.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Let’s be realistic. It doesn’t matter if it is withdrawn in almost as-new condition, it will be a rancid heap of scrap in a few years after it sits unloved outside somewhere unused. Heritage railways don’t want EMUs and running preserved EMU charters is a fantasy.

 

[John Luxton]

Let’s be realistic. It doesn’t matter if it is withdrawn in almost as-new condition, it will be a rancid heap of scrap in a few years after it sits unloved outside somewhere unused. Heritage railways don’t want EMUs and running preserved EMU charters is a fantasy.

If its a fantasy what about the Brighton Belle Project seems to have been some serious money put into that fantasy.

Currently here on Merseyside the old Birkenhead Central Depot moulders away unused since the 1990s - that could make an excellent EMU / Electric Railway museum mainly under cover. Easy access from the adjacent station, direct connection from the Merseyrail lines. The preserved 502 / 503 units could have been kept under cover in there away from the weather.

 

[Bertie the bus]

If its a fantasy what about the Brighton Belle Project seems to have been some serious money put into that fantasy.

That won't be a preserved EMU running charters. It will be another luxury dining train that just happens to be an EMU and as you say it has had huge amounts of money thrown at it. Slightly different to an basic, inner suburban PEP derived unit.

 

[John Luxton]

That won't be a preserved EMU running charters. It will be another luxury dining train that just happens to be an EMU and as you say it has had huge amounts of money thrown at it. Slightly different to an basic, inner suburban PEP derived unit.

I don't think so - its still aiming at the same enthusiast market - though I will concede the BB will probably attract more non enthusiast punters, but correctly marketed no reason why a 507 can't run specials that appeal to "joe public". Thinking laterally West Kirby to Southport and vice versa. Something not normally available as a through experience. Given the support for BLS Merseyrail charters I imagine filling it would not be difficult if run on summer weekends.

 

[Bertie the bus]

The Brighton Belle won't be aimed at the enthusiast market. I'm not going to comment on the rest as I have already pointed out preserved EMU charters are just fantasy. If you want to live in that fantasy world then that is up to you.

 

[D365]

I don't think so - its still aiming at the same enthusiast market - though I will concede the BB will probably attract more non enthusiast punters, but correctly marketed no reason why a 507 can't run specials that appeal to "joe public".

The Brighton Belle won't be aimed at the enthusiast market. I'm not going to comment on the rest as I have already pointed out preserved EMU charters are just fantasy. If you want to live in that fantasy world then that is up to you.

On the one hand, Munich managed this for some years with their heritage "420" S-Bahn unit. But despite being of a similar vintage, I don't think that the BREL EMUs will ever garner that level of interest.

 

[507021]

All I'm going to say is: anyone who thinks a 507 would be forgotten about and left to deteriorate, should the group be successful in saving one, are very much mistaken. The group accepts a 507 would be very unlikely to run under its own power in preservation, but the primary aim is to preserve one as a static exhibit for posterity. I do agree the wheels should have been set in motion sooner to increase chances of success, but the group is where it is and at least somebody's actually making a serious attempt to save a 507.

 

[renegademaster]

What barriers is their for using as loco hauled stock? Other than unfashionable modern interior

 

[43096]

What barriers is their for using as loco hauled stock? Other than unfashionable modern interior

Couplers for a start.

 

[Bertie the bus]

All I'm going to say is: anyone who thinks a 507 would be forgotten about and left to deteriorate, should the group be successful in saving one, are very much mistaken. The group accepts a 507 would be very unlikely to run under its own power in preservation, but the primary aim is to preserve one as a static exhibit for posterity. I do agree the wheels should have been set in motion sooner to increase chances of success, but the group is where it is and at least somebody's actually making a serious attempt to save a 507.

Nobody buys a train with the intention of it rotting away in some field or siding but it regularly happens. Who is going to provide a publicly accessible indoor area to house a 3-car EMU that very few people would have any interest in?

 

[507021]

Nobody buys a train with the intention of it rotting away in some field or siding but it regularly happens. Who is going to provide a publicly accessible indoor area to house a 3-car EMU that very few people would have any interest in?

The group is fully aware of the challenges, short and long term, which come with EMU preservation. Obtaining suitable, long term storage is one of those which is currently being worked on. Preserving a 507 long term isn't going to be an easy task, but it's certainly not impossible.

 

[Train Maniac]

Am i misremembering, or did Liverpool City Museum say they were interested in preserving a unit?

 

[John Luxton]

Am i misremembering, or did Liverpool City Museum say they were interested in preserving a unit?

I would not trust National Museums Liverpool to preserve anything. Sone years ago they broke up the historic Weaver Packet vessel WINCHAM and are about to start breaking up the historic trading Ketch DE WADDEN.

 

[prod_pep]

As far as I know, National Museums Liverpool never expressed any interest in preserving a 507/8. There was supposedly a proposal for one to feature as part of the Dock Branch project in Birkenhead, but this project has been beset by various delays and won't be ready anywhere near in time.

 

[Train Maniac]

As far as I know, National Museums Liverpool never expressed any interest in preserving a 507/8. There was supposedly a proposal for one to feature as part of the Dock Branch project in Birkenhead, but this project has been beset by various delays and won't be ready anywhere near in time.

Ahh thats probably what i was thinking of

 

[Alanko]

Surely you say you will persevere an example of class 507 rather than a specific unit - what happens IF 507001 is rotten but 5070098 is in tip top condition coming out of service?

One of the reasons I can't take these preservation groups seriously. 507001 has a pretty livery and is first of the class, so far more important to gricers than an example with better 'bones'. Pragmatism quickly flies out the window.

...correctly marketed no reason why a 507 can't run specials that appeal to "joe public". Thinking laterally West Kirby to Southport and vice versa.

I'm don't share your optimism. If there isn't an existing rail tour aimed at Joe Public (47 + maroon Mk1s) then they won't leap at the chance when you bring in a modern-looking EMU over the same route. Especially the case if the special train (with special ticket price) looks a lot like the trains that recently served the route anyway.

A bit like asking somebody in Scotland if they want to do Edinburgh to Dunblane in a 156 in regional railways livery...

 

[lrailadventure]

One of the reasons I can't take these preservation groups seriously. 507001 has a pretty livery and is first of the class, so far more important to gricers than an example with better 'bones'. Pragmatism quickly flies out the window.

The group started before 507001 was changed to the blue livery...

And as addressed in post #6, the group have said if there's a good reason to, they'll look at different units.. They've just chosen 507001 as the ideal unit currently because it was the first one to operate on the network, and it carried the Queen. No one is saying they must have 001, they've just shown a preference for it.

 

[prod_pep]

One of the reasons I can't take these preservation groups seriously. 507001 has a pretty livery and is first of the class, so far more important to gricers than an example with better 'bones'. Pragmatism quickly flies out the window.

507001's status as the society's preferred unit has nothing whatsoever to do with its 'pretty livery'. It was identified as such well before this livery was applied, because as well as being amongst the last to be overhauled, it has clear historical value as first delivered, first in service and the unit which carried the Queen on the opening special. The fact it remains reliable in service and was only overhauled at the start of this year suggests it isn't 'rotten'.

Regardless, it makes sense to favour a unit likely to be amongst the very last withdrawn, with historical merit and the recent re-livery with a fresh wrap covering its bodywork is a bonus. A lot more sense than the '508111 should have been preserved due to its Beatles wrap' claims, which I would agree are not to be taken seriously.

 

[43096]

507001's status as the society's preferred unit has nothing whatsoever to do with its 'pretty livery'. It was identified as such well before this livery was applied, because as well as being amongst the last to be overhauled, it has clear historical value as first delivered, first in service and the unit which carried the Queen on the opening special.

If the intentis for it to be used then condition is more improtant anything else. First delivered/first in service/carried the Queen is of minimal importance if you want to run it. If it is case of it being a static exhibit, then the "firsts" are of greater importance.

The fact it remains reliable in service and was only overhauled at the start of this year suggests it isn't 'rotten'.

That's the important reason for for choosing it.

I don't think so - its still aiming at the same enthusiast market - though I will concede the BB will probably attract more non enthusiast punters, but correctly marketed no reason why a 507 can't run specials that appeal to "joe public". Thinking laterally West Kirby to Southport and vice versa. Something not normally available as a through experience. Given the support for BLS Merseyrail charters I imagine filling it would not be difficult if run on summer weekends.

It's of limited appeal for charters:
- limited operational area
- no toilets
- only 3-car (6-car would be much better)

It might fill once, but it is of such a niche case that it is not going to be long-term viable, set against the cost of keeping it running.

 

[Bertie the bus]

It's of limited appeal for charters:
- limited operational area
- no toilets
- only 3-car (6-car would be much better)

It might fill once, but it is of such a niche case that it is not going to be long-term viable, set against the cost of keeping it running.

Even if that wasn't the case charters would be so expensive nobody would book on them unless it did interesting track and would fill with BLS members, but those charters fill because of the track and Merseyrail using a 777 would be just as appealing as a preserved 507.

Preserved EMU charters did work in the past when BR depots kept them as pets after withdrawal but the cost of getting the unit onto the Merseyrail network, when Merseyrail doesn't even have any road access points - the unit that was taken to Derby had to be dragged to the docks to be loaded onto a lorry - would mean any charter would be probably at least 10 times the price of a Saveaway and normals aren't going to pay that for the convenience of not having to change at Moorfields on a trip from the Wirral to Southport.

 

[lyndhurst25]

Pity it can’t be kept as a Merseyrail depot pet. Fit an onboard bar and there are plenty of events and destinations on Merseyside that it could be used for on special services. e.g. Aintree and Chester races, Southport flower show / air show / fireworks, Golf tournaments at Birkdale and that place on the Wirral. Liverpool is a popular stag and hen night destination - what about hiring it out for that? Merseyrail put out a unit for a wedding special not so long ago.

Full steam ahead for bride's wedding journey on specially commissioned Merseyrail train

Leanne Cole will walk to Fazakerley Station and catch train to Liverpool Central ahead of ceremony at St George's Hall

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[John Luxton]

Pity it can’t be kept as a Merseyrail depot pet. Fit an onboard bar and there are plenty of events and destinations on Merseyside that it could be used for on special services. e.g. Aintree and Chester races, Southport flower show / air show / fireworks, Golf tournaments at Birkdale and that place on the Wirral. Liverpool is a popular stag and hen night destination - what about hiring it out for that? Merseyrail put out a unit for a wedding special not so long ago.

That is a really good idea - could also have a toilet fitted.

Someone above pointed to the lack of toilets being an issue but when charters are run of the units time is usually allowed for passengers to use toilets at stations - not a major issue really but useful if one fitted a bar.

 

[DanNCL]

I’m surprised any of the ROSCOs engage with such preservation groups but I’m glad that they do. EMUs take up space and can’t run anywhere but they’re as important a part of railway history as any diesel. If larger established places such as the NRM don’t want them it’s good that someone sees the value of them now rather than it ending up like the 456s or the LNER Tyneside EMUs where all of them go for scrap despite being short units.

That said though, and I never thought I’d say this, but I can’t help thinking that the better option may have been to follow Nexus’s lead and directly approach organisations they know have the resources to look after a unit. Unless of course Angel did do this and it didn’t get anywhere.

 

[43096]

That is a really good idea - could also have a toilet fitted.

Someone above pointed to the lack of toilets being an issue but when charters are run of the units time is usually allowed for passengers to use toilets at stations - not a major issue really but useful if one fitted a bar.

Bar... Toilets... 3-car unit. Not going to be much space for passengers after that. What fares are you charging for these charters that will be so popular?