Class 50s to Fratton in 1988

[clickaway]

I'm looking through some old Kodachromes I took in 1988, and see I have labelled my shot of 50005 passing Woking as being on the 9.25 Waterloo to Fratton on 1st March. Unusually, I photographed at that spot the very next morning too and have 50042 on that same service. Can anyone throw any light on this service being hauled by a 50, or indeed any loco? And how long did it last in that way?

Many Thanks

Ray

 

[Big Jumby 74]

The timing of that train varied slightly during its time, by the Winter 1988 timetable it was the 09.22 Waterloo to Portsmouth Hbr. It was booked a class 50 + LH stock, can't remember how long it was thus, but was tied in with workings from Portsmouth Harbour to Plymouth and return, and also with usual Waterloo-Exeter line services at the London end. There was a discussion on here (somewhere) about this only a short while ago I believe. Will see if I can find it.

Having just checked, at the time you witnessed this train, the associated leg forward from Portsmouth was 1V12, 12.03 Ports Hbr to Paignton, but by the Winter 88 timetable this had become 11.59 to Plymouth. The return legs would have originated similarly down in the West I presume (can't now remember), with the leg from Portsmouth Hbr being the 15.30 Ports Hbr to Waterloo.

 

[Magdalia]

The train was the 0925 Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour. On arrival it formed the 1203 Portsmouth Harbour to Paignton.

Going the other way was 1105 Exeter to Portsmouth Harbour which formed 1530 Portsmouth Harbour to Waterloo.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

The earlier thread was started 16 Oct 2023 and titled 'Operations of the Waterloo Exeter 50's and loco diagramming in general'. Sorry, can't seem to add a link, but type in 'class 50 Portsmouth' in the search button, top right of screen, and you should see several posts relating to that discussion.

It would appear (from that discussion) this arrangement of LH+class 50 on the Portsmouth direct only lasted from May 87 to May 89.

 

[jfollows]

Here’s a link to that thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...r-50s-and-loco-diagramming-in-general.256240/

Also https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...table-consultation.220396/page-5#post-5243729

I lived in/around Portsmouth 1984-1994, with a break in the USA 1989-92, but I never went on any of these 50-hauled services. I guess they weren’t really timed for trips from Portsmouth, unless you were so keen that you’d make a special effort, and class 50s weren’t of themselves unusual at the time, it was just an unusual route for them.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

A bit of random trivia related to this post: the train that went forward to Plymouth/Paignton from Portsmouth Harbour (11.59/12.03) was booked from platform 2 at the Harbour, now but a distant memory alas, that platform I mean! The 15.30 UP to Waterloo was booked from p5.

 

[clickaway]

Thanks all for your very informative replies.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

A bit of related nostalgia, both from 1988..

 

[nw1]

A bit of related nostalgia, both from 1988..

Great pics. In addition, the presence of the VEP on P5 is interesting (I presume it's P5) and at roughly that time of the hour the up '81' would be on P5, which would normally be a CIG/BEP/CIG combo. So either the 50 was late, the up train was a previous service running late, or there was a rare VEP on an '81'.

I used Guildford a lot at the time, the platform (P4, I would imagine) looks a bit rough and it looks like they're doing some kind of works (temporary lighting appears to be strung up in the background). This vaguely rings a bell, I do seem to remember a period when they were doing some work on the platforms during my years of using Guildford regularly.

The up 50 working was one I saw very frequently, while I seem to remember seeing this down working just the once, in its early days (probably around May or June 1987). Still never managed to see 50037 "Illustrious" though !

XC services had been withdrawn (away from peak summer) on the Direct in May 1987 but the 50s meant that there was a 7 year period, from 1982 to 1989, that regular loco-hauled services operated Mon-Fri all year on the Direct south of Guildford.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

D437 wasn't a common visitor to SWD metals in NSE days, as far as I recall. I have one pic of it at Waterloo, but that's about it. Suspect it was allocated to the pool of loco's that worked the Oxford's in those days perhaps?

 

[nw1]

D437 wasn't a common visitor to SWD metals in NSE days, as far as I recall. I have one pic of it at Waterloo, but that's about it. Suspect it was allocated to the pool of loco's that worked the Oxford's in those days perhaps?

Possibly yes. I did visit Reading on multiple occasions between Jan 1984 and Oct 1986 but didn't see it.

Incidentally by coincidence the two 50s you do show (assuming D4xx is, aside from D400/50050, always equivalent to 500xx) include "St Vincent" which I "cabbed" with a friend in 1983 (?) at Woking, and "Sir Edward Elgar" which was my only haulage from Basingstoke-Woking in December 1989.

 

[Taunton]

I believe certain Class 50 locos were out of service long term, as there were not as many diesel engines as locos, following a couple of catastrophic engine failures which were not replaced.

The Portsmouth train was to serve the quite substantial demand in those times for connecting the two major naval bases, Portsmouth and Plymouth, as much for family travel who had often been split between the two as for official movements. It is surprising that it was diverted to Paignton rather than running through. The Waterloo-Exeter coaching stock in those times was based at Newton Abbot, but it was very common for all sorts of stock headed for the depots there to go down to Paignton and then make the short run back. But that seems done here more for operating convenience rather than serve the demand through to Plymouth.

 

[Gloster]

Recollection is that the stabling of the Waterloo-Exeter stock shifted to Laira from Newton Abbot late in 1980 (or possibly early in 1981). It may have been tied in to the switch to class 50 + Mark II.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Incidentally by coincidence the two 50s you do show (assuming D4xx is, aside from D400/50050, always equivalent to 500xx)

Yes. I tend to file/refer to my photo's etc by the locos originally allocated number (BR locos that is), as many types/classes of interest to me were withdrawn long before TOPS, and others (eg 37's - a fav type of mine from 30A days) have been renumbered so many times, I lost the plot long ago, so tend to refer to all by their Dxxxx number.
007 of course carried the name 'Hercules' before it became 'Sir Edward Elgar', although I don't now remember the reason for the renaming (sure someone will know?), albeit the latter in human form was a very fine composer IMHO!
My first encounter with the class was long before they were named. Some of them were reliable, others fell woefully short of that phrase, but as Taunton rightly comments on/alludes to, individual loco performance was often down to the particular power unit (the lump) sitting between the cabs, which were often switched around after failures or during refits. May have commented before about '33s lack of top end speed (in my experience), yet I have heard others who, at the time, swore by that particular loco! A very fickle subject perhaps?
Here' 037 on the blocks at Waterloo in March '88.

Recollection is that the stabling of the Waterloo-Exeter stock shifted to Laira from Newton Abbot late in 1980 (or possibly early in 1981). It may have been tied in to the switch to class 50 + Mark II

I believe you are correct. I do vaguely remember diagramming sets from/to NA, but LA became the norm, whereby each night the 9 car MK2 sets were spread between LA, Salisbury and Eastleigh for stabling, with the odd one up at Clapham on Sat nights for the first down train on Sun's if my memory is correct.

 

[randyrippley]

Hercules was alledly renamed when someone in government realised the only active warship of that name was Argentinian