Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[TT-ONR-NRN]

No. Soft launch for this year with very little fanfare

Is what you think they'd want, or what you've heard they're planning to do?

 

[Waterlemon]

Is what you think they'd want, or what you've heard they're planning to do?

its a fact

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

its a fact

While I hate to be that type of forum member, have you got a source to back that assertion up please?

 

[DMckduck]

Guard training has started on the 701s, it seems by stealth but that is confirmed

 

[12LDA28C]

While I hate to be that type of forum member, have you got a source to back that assertion up please?

It's correct, told to me by someone responsible for training on the units. Soft launch, dependent on numbers of staff trained and available.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It's correct, told to me by someone responsible for training on the units. Soft launch, dependent on numbers of staff trained and available.

Wonderful, thanks. Is there a planned date? I understand people may not be able to reveal which date that is, but I’m just wondering if there is one.

Thanks also for the information @Waterlemon

 

[Goldfish62]

It's correct, told to me by someone responsible for training on the units. Soft launch, dependent on numbers of staff trained and available.

Great! Positive development at long last!

 

[Dan G]

Method of working is changing and ASLEF / RMT have been in discussions with SWR. It has pretty much been confirmed as driver open guard close. With CD/RA being used at Waterloo and Reading.

CD/RA?

 

[43066]

CD/RA?

“Close Doors” and “Right Away” instructions, controlled by platform staff, given directly to drivers via visual indicators situated above platforms or attached to signals.

Generally only used at major terminals or other exceptionally busy locations.

 

[Dan G]

“Close Doors” and “Right Away” instructions, controlled by platform staff, given directly to drivers via visual indicators situated above platforms or attached to signals.

Generally only used at major terminals or other exceptionally busy locations.

Thank you

 

[Goldfish62]

“Close Doors” and “Right Away” instructions, controlled by platform staff, given directly to drivers via visual indicators situated above platforms or attached to signals.

Generally only used at major terminals or other exceptionally busy locations.

As a point of interest the equipment was installed at Waterloo and Clapham Junction as well as other major stations as apart of SWT's stillborn attempt to move to DOO in the late 90s.

Assuming it's the same equipment it's at last going to be used (at Waterloo at least) a quarter of a century later!

I'm surprised that CD/RA isn't going to be used at Clapham Junction though. That's the method of despatch on the Southern platforms and SWR staff currently use it for despatching Southern trains on Platform 12.

 

[7031]

As a point of interest the equipment was installed at Waterloo and Clapham Junction as well as other major stations as apart of SWT's stillborn attempt to move to DOO in the late 90s.

Assuming it's the same equipment it's at last going to be used (at Waterloo at least) a quarter of a century later!

I'm surprised that CD/RA isn't going to be used at Clapham Junction though. That's the method of despatch on the Southern platforms and SWR staff currently use it for despatching Southern trains on Platform 12.

Indeed - admittedly I don't work in the rail industry but in my mind Clapham Junction would be the one obvious place to use it, moreso than Waterloo even.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Assuming it's the same equipment it's at last going to be used (at Waterloo at least)

Minor point, but has been used at Waterloo for years, albeit for outbound ECS moves which were/are DOO.

 

[3973EXL]

701002

Realtime Trains | 5Q74 0917 Wembley Inter City Depot to Derby Litchurch Lane | 30/11/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q74 0917 departure from Wembley Inter City Depot to Derby Litchurch Lane on 30/11/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Goldfish62]

Minor point, but has been used at Waterloo for years, albeit for outbound ECS moves which were/are DOO.

Ah, didn't know that!!!

 

[Carlisle]

Minor point, but has been used at Waterloo for years, albeit for outbound ECS moves which were/are DOO.

Hasn’t the ‘Right Away’ function of those indicators at Waterloo been in use for a while with passanger services similar to the way Pendilioos are dispatched at several WCML stations

 

[godfreycomplex]

Hasn’t the ‘Right Away’ function of those indicators at Waterloo been in use for a while with passanger services similar to the way Pendilioos are dispatched at several WCML stations

Not at Waterloo, no. The last time RA was booked to be used for regular services there (apart from possibly the Eurostar) was the loco hauled Exeter services that finished in 1993.

CD/RA is fitted but has only been used in anger for the diverted Southeastern services in 2018

Waterloo and Kings Cross are the only remaining London termini (not counting through platforms/Underground) that don’t use the RA for all passenger services, and as swr444 has said that is changing at Waterloo

CD/RA also fitted at Vauxhall, Clapham, Surbiton, Woking, Guildford and a few more, although they probably won’t be used in passenger services.

 

[Carlisle]

Not at Waterloo, no. The last time RA was booked to be used for regular services there (apart from possibly the Eurostar) was the loco hauled Exeter services that finished in 1993.

Ok thanks, I’m clearly mistaken there.

 

[MPW]

Can someone please summarise, or link to summary, what the benefits of these new trains will be? Apart from smelling new - will signalling systems change, increased services, etc?

214 pages in this thread and I cannot found particularly detailed articles on the googweb (seem to mostly focus on delays rather than benefits).

 

[Timetraveller]

Can someone please summarise, or link to summary, what the benefits of these new trains will be? Apart from smelling new - will signalling systems change, increased services, etc?

214 pages in this thread and I cannot found particularly detailed articles on the googweb (seem to mostly focus on delays rather than benefits).

The trains will be air conditioned and have toilets.
Replacing majority of older units (class 455) which do not have either.
Higher capacity for passengers seated & standing
Trains will be longer
They are geared for higher speed and faster acceleration and braking.
Energy saving braking system
Eventually have automatic braking system (New technology)
Was supposed to have shorter dwell times but this won't happen now.

Link from South western railway website about the new trains

www.southwesternrailway.com/travelling-with-us/our-trains/arterio

 

[Deepgreen]

It's correct, told to me by someone responsible for training on the units. Soft launch, dependent on numbers of staff trained and available.

Hardly surprising, given the almost farcical saga so far. The last thing they could sensibly do is launch them with a public fanfare!

 

[MPW]

The trains will be air conditioned and have toilets.
Replacing majority of older units (class 455) which do not have either.
Higher capacity for passengers seated & standing
Trains will be longer
They are geared for higher speed and faster acceleration and braking.
Energy saving braking system
Eventually have automatic braking system (New technology)
Was supposed to have shorter dwell times but this won't happen now.

Link from South western railway website about the new trains

www.southwesternrailway.com/travelling-with-us/our-trains/arterio

Thank you very much. I guess there is nothing specific at this stage on how the new trains will affect timetables - even if dwell times are unchanged there might still be faster journeys due to improved acceleration and braking.

The website also says these will be replacing existing units but doesn't say if any will be used for new timetables services. Is that because capacity is the constraint, rather than number of trains?

 

[GW43125]

Thank you very much. I guess there is nothing specific at this stage on how the new trains will affect timetables - even if dwell times are unchanged there might still be faster journeys due to improved acceleration and braking.

The website also says these will be replacing existing units but doesn't say if any will be used for new timetables services. Is that because capacity is the constraint, rather than number of trains?

Unlikely to see many timetables changes I'd have thought, but they'll aid recovery-for instance the Shepperton line is terrible for losing time and having stops cut out because it's so tight. The Windsor side can also lose 5 minutes quite easily.

The order was from a time when there were far more trains pre-covid. Whilst there's some services we lost a few years ago we'd love to have back, I fear we'll never see them again.

 

[D365]

No. Soft launch for this year with very little fanfare

It's correct, told to me by someone responsible for training on the units. Soft launch, dependent on numbers of staff trained and available.

This is my understanding too.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Trains will be longer

The new trains are 10-car

The existing trains, before withdrawal of the 456 fleet, were a mixture of

• Class 455/456 (4+4+2 car)
• Class 458 (5+5 car)
• Class 707 (5+5 car)

 

[GW43125]

The new trains are 10-car

The existing trains, before withdrawal of the 456 fleet, were a mixture of

• Class 455/456 (4+4+2 car)
• Class 458 (5+5 car)
• Class 707 (5+5 car)

A lot of services, at the time of withdrawal of the 456s, were simply pairs of 455s, or 455+456+456 in an 8car formation deputising for unavailable units.

There are, and always were, still a lot of 8-455 and 8-450 workings on the Windsor side. And 450s are crap for timekeeping on suburban services.

 

[GeoffS]

A lot of services, at the time of withdrawal of the 456s, were simply pairs of 455s, or 455+456+456 in an 8car formation deputising for unavailable units.

There are, and always were, still a lot of 8-455 and 8-450 workings on the Windsor side. And 450s are crap for timekeeping on suburban services.

But aren't all currently operating 450s 5-car?

 

[Lockwood]

No. The 450s are 4, the 444s are 5.

 

[43066]

As a point of interest the equipment was installed at Waterloo and Clapham Junction as well as other major stations as apart of SWT's stillborn attempt to move to DOO in the late 90s.

Assuming it's the same equipment it's at last going to be used (at Waterloo at least) a quarter of a century later!

I'm surprised that CD/RA isn't going to be used at Clapham Junction though. That's the method of despatch on the Southern platforms and SWR staff currently use it for despatching Southern trains on Platform 12.

Yes indeed, quite hilarious in some ways. And DOO is seemingly still no closer now than it was then!

EDIT: and I believe at some locations (Vauxhall?) the DOO monitors were repositioned to the middle of the platform so that they could be used for guard dispatch. Quite a sensible decision in the circumstances.

Not at Waterloo, no. The last time RA was booked to be used for regular services there (apart from possibly the Eurostar) was the loco hauled Exeter services that finished in 1993.

That’s interesting to learn. So Waterloo is standard guard dispatch? I’m surprised by that as RA is surely preferable at busy locations on stock without drop lights, so that platform staff can conduct a final safety check once the guard is aboard and all doors are closed (the procedure at my London terminal is for the guard to close doors, then RA to be given to the driver by platform staff).

If I was to take a wild guess, I’d imagine the reason is simply to reduce the number of platform staff required!

 

[Carlisle]

EDIT: and I believe at some locations (Vauxhall?) the DOO monitors were repositioned to the middle of the platform so that they could be used for guard dispatch. Quite a sensible decision in the circumstances.

Weren’t all the SWR guards monitors installed much later (from around 2004 onwards when the Desiros came in) ?