Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[Goldfish62]

and again today, it would seem

Hmm....

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

and again today, it would seem

Across Xmas period just makes sense to deliver the service reliably and regroup in the new year when resourcing levels are back to normal.

 

[Monty]

"Under 3 monthly review".. interesting

Personally I think that's a 'get out' clause to save face, so they can argue that DCO as originally intended will be introduced in the near future. The fact is most of the SWR's metro area needs substantial investment and improvements to facilitate this method of working and I doubt it's going to happen anytime soon.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Personally I think that's a 'get out' clause to save face, so they can argue that DCO as originally intended will be introduced in the near future. The fact is most of the SWR's metro area needs substantial investment and improvements to facilitate this method of working and I doubt it's going to happen anytime soon.

True yes

 

[Carlisle]

The fact is most of the SWR's metro area needs substantial investment and improvements to facilitate this method of working

Unless there’s been very considerable changes to standards since Southern extended DCO it shouldn’t require huge investment apart from some lighting upgrades & CD/RA boxes at some stations .

 

[43066]

K

Unless there’s been very considerable changes to standards since Southern extended DCO it shouldn’t require huge investment apart from some lighting upgrades & CD/RA boxes at some stations .

If it was that easy it would surely have been done…

 

[Goldfish62]

Personally I think that's a 'get out' clause to save face, so they can argue that DCO as originally intended will be introduced in the near future. The fact is most of the SWR's metro area needs substantial investment and improvements to facilitate this method of working and I doubt it's going to happen anytime soon.

You have to wonder how Greater Anglia managed it so easily.

 

[Carlisle]

You have to wonder how Greater Anglia managed it so easily.

True & even on Merseyrail drivers dispatch using the body side cameras so wonder why it’s proved so problematic on SWR

 

[Goldfish62]

True & even on Merseyrail drivers dispatch using the body side cameras so wonder why it’s proved so problematic on SWR

But, we are where we are, and whatever the reason for it a pragmatic decision has been taken which enables them to get into service quicker.

 

[Carlisle]

But, we are where we are, and whatever the reason for it a pragmatic decision has been taken which enables them to get into service quicker.

True

 

[74A]

You are forgetting the performance benefits of driver close. It will always be quicker as you won't have the 15-20 of guard getting in, closing door giving 2 on the buzzer. DCO will come in eventually.

 

[Bigfoot]

You are forgetting the performance benefits of driver close. It will always be quicker as you won't have the 15-20 of guard getting in, closing door giving 2 on the buzzer. DCO will come in eventually.

You'll have the 15-20 of the driver doing their in cab monitor checks instead.

 

[Meerkat]

True & even on Merseyrail drivers dispatch using the body side cameras so wonder why it’s proved so problematic on SWR

SWR trains are a tad longer than Merseyrail ones.

 

[Goldfish62]

You'll have the 15-20 of the driver doing their in cab monitor checks instead.

Never been my experience when travelling on DOO trains over the past 40-odd years. Or indeed on the 701s when they used DCO at some stations until recently.

SWR trains are a tad longer than Merseyrail ones.

GA trains are at least as long as SWR ones.

 

[Recessio]

How much of the area 701s will operate in will overlap with Crossrail 2 (which presumably will be DOO)? Those stations would have to be upgraded for it eventually. So perhaps we will see DCO or DOO on the 701s one day.

 

[JCO1406]

How much of the area 701s will operate in will overlap with Crossrail 2 (which presumably will be DOO)? Those stations would have to be upgraded for it eventually. So perhaps we will see DCO or DOO on the 701s one day.

Crossrail 2 isn't happening and if it was to be built, it wont be done within the next 10 years. And by that point, SWR/GBR will probably have DOO sorted out.

 

[Goldfish62]

Crossrail 2 isn't happening and if it was to be built, it wont be done within the next 10 years. And by that point, SWR/GBR will probably have DOO sorted out.

Given that we're now on the 3rd failed attempt to introduce DOO/DCO on the South Western in the past 35 years you may be being somewhat optimistic.

 

[43066]

Never been my experience when travelling on DOO trains over the past 40-odd years. Or indeed on the 701s when they used DCO at some stations until recently.

Based on years of experience of driving both DOO and guarded trains to modern driving policies, I’d say that driver release, driver close is often no quicker then guarded operation. Where I work we can get a guarded train in and out of a platform quicker than a Thameslink doing driver release/dispatch.

A properly dispatched DOO train these days requires the driver to check the signal, close doors, check interlock, check each monitor individually, check signal again etc. There is an intense focus on PTI risk, and gone are the days when you could just rely on the interlock light, as was the case when DOO was first introduced on stock with power doors. Hence these days the advantage, if it exists at all, is much less clear cut.

 

[norbitonflyer]

017 and 039 the only two shown on RTT this morning. Two diagrams either not running, the other two operated by 2x450 and 2x458/5

 

[Goldfish62]

017 and 039 the only two shown on RTT this morning. Two diagrams either not running, the other two operated by 2x450 and 2x458/5

Special Saturday-type service today. Even the 0709 from Reading was 10 458 instead the usual 455!

 

[TEW]

Yes, it's just two booked out today.

 

[DMckduck]

Unless there’s been very considerable changes to standards since Southern extended DCO it shouldn’t require huge investment apart from some lighting upgrades & CD/RA boxes at some stations .

I can't imagine it's as simple as just installing CD/RA, each station would need permanent dispatch staff for all platforms at all times.

Let's use vauxhall as an example, due to short notice platform changes that would need 8 dispatchers at a minimum rostered from start to end of service and relevant cover to pick up staff sickness.

Then you've gotta ask how much money is all of it actually costing??

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Special Saturday-type service today. Even the 0709 from Reading was 10 458 instead the usual 455!

Can't really be expecting much around Christmas if during normal times they struggle to staff anyway. Surprised they've even managed to run those 2

 

[Carlisle]

Let's use vauxhall as an example, due to short notice platform changes that would need 8 dispatchers at a minimum rostered from start to end of service and relevant cover to pick up staff sickness.

Agreed, only major stations like Clapham Junction & Waterloo & perhaps some other terminating locations realistically may need CD/RA can’t see why with the correct lighting Vauxhall should be a problem for dispatch via the usual on train cameras procedure

 

[Big Jumby 74]

can’t see why with the correct lighting Vauxhall should be a problem

The Windsor side platforms in theory shouldn't pose too many problems for modern (camera based) technology perhaps?, but p7/8 on the main sub side is a different kettle of fish, given the platform curvature, other platform/under awning furniture, especially at peak times when that 'island' can be rammed with people off one train when the next one arrives. The nature of those high rise monstrosities in the vicinity these days have also caused (lighting) distraction issues for drivers, which the Ops safety people became involved with at least once (prior to SWR days). Not a pleasant corridor to have to drive through now a days I suspect, especially at night.

 

[Carlisle]

Appreciate the explanation, thanks .

 

[TEW]

SWR were going for full driver self dispatch apart from at Waterloo and Reading, so didn't require any additional CD/RA equipment installed.

Had they gone for platform staff dispatch at more locations they probably would have had more success. Given they had committed to guards remaining on every train even without dispatch responsibilities though that would likely have meant the project actually caused staffing costs to increase. It already has at Waterloo with additional dispatch staff employed to dispatch using the CD/RA equipment.

So even if DCO is successfully introduced it has cost a very large percentage pay increase for drivers, a reduction in the working week for guards and subsequent headcount increase, additional dispatch staff at Waterloo plus money spent on infrastructure upgrades to sign platforms off for driver self dispatch.

 

[Goldfish62]

Can't really be expecting much around Christmas if during normal times they struggle to staff anyway. Surprised they've even managed to run those 2

Exactly.

 

[3973EXL]

701051

Realtime Trains | 5Q85 1539 Long Marston to Eastleigh Trsmd | 23/12/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q85 1539 departure from Long Marston to Eastleigh Trsmd on 23/12/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[norbitonflyer]

Three this morning - one of them, 701039, is now the second unit to have achieved 100 (non-consecutive) days in service.
Two Shepperton diagrams and one Windsor