Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[Domh245]

Evening,

Any truth to the rumor that the 10-cars have been passed for service but the 5's haven't (or vice versa) ? Cheers in advance.

All of the units have been authorised for service by the ORR, however they cannot work in multiple. No idea about whether SWR have accepted them for service yet/done sufficient driver training etc

 

[TEW]

All of the units have been authorised for service by the ORR, however they cannot work in multiple. No idea about whether SWR have accepted them for service yet/done sufficient driver training etc

Driver training hasn't even started AFAIK. Don't see them entering service any time soon.

 

[ComUtoR]

All of the units have been authorised for service by the ORR, however they cannot work in multiple.

That makes much more sense, Thanks.

 

[317 forever]

It is encouraging about 701 006 displaying its full number not just 006, despite the inevitable gap between class and unit number. Greater Anglia could take note ....

 

[spark001uk]

It is encouraging about 701 006 displaying its full number not just 006, despite the inevitable gap between class and unit number. Greater Anglia could take note ....

As discussed recently here, that unit has 701006 on one end, and just 006 at the other. It's a bit of a lottery with units delivered so far, but I think the last couple have had the full number both ends.

 

[Peter Sarf]

As discussed recently here, that unit has 701006 on one end, and just 006 at the other. It's a bit of a lottery with units delivered so far, but I think the last couple have had the full number both ends.

I will just be thankful the number on each end infers the same unit !. [/pedant]

 

[Malcolmffc]

I see, so the benefit of the 701's would be a better view for the driver and lower maintenance costs?

Plus more modern, higher capacity, air conditioning, better acceleration, semi-ATO between Wimbledon and Waterloo

 

[spark001uk]

Plus more modern, higher capacity, air conditioning, better acceleration, semi-ATO between Wimbledon and Waterloo

That'll be interesting with the amount of signal and points failures they get on that stretch.

 

[Bald Rick]

That'll be interesting with the amount of signal and points failures they get on that stretch.

That confused me. What’s the issue?

 

[spark001uk]

That confused me. What’s the issue?

Well it'll be interesting seeing how the ato deals with any issues that's all.

 

[samuelmorris]

It's ABDO though, not full ATO, so theoretically should fail over more gracefully I'd hope.

 

[spark001uk]

What exactly is the semi-ATO referred to above then? Or was that meant to say abdo?

 

[Flange Squeal]

What exactly is the semi-ATO referred to above then? Or was that meant to say abdo?

Must be - ABDO is the system the 701s will use.

 

[Bald Rick]

Well it'll be interesting seeing how the ato deals with any issues that's all.

Well it’s not ATO, and not linked to the signalling system.

But even if it was, it would cope with failures of the signalling system just as well as any driver, ie stopping at the red signal / limit of movement authority. Just like the Victoria line has done for half a century.

 

[Goldfish62]

Well it’s not ATO, and not linked to the signalling system.

But even if it was, it would cope with failures of the signalling system just as well as any driver, ie stopping at the red signal / limit of movement authority. Just like the Victoria line has done for half a century.

As indeed do automatically driven railways all over the world.

 

[pompeyfan]

Does ATO allow for emergency special working, emergency permissive working and wrong direction moves?

 

[Goldfish62]

Does ATO allow for emergency special working, emergency permissive working and wrong direction moves?

I suppose it depends on the system. On LU coded manual (in-cab signalling) is used for out of turn movements.

 

[Domh245]

ATO will just drive a train as far as it's told it can by the signalling system. It's like asking if human drivers have allowance for permissive/emergency etc moves - they carry them out according to signalling systems and rules. A theoretical ATO system is the same

 

[AverageTD]

Was the ATO something being done specifically with the 701s in mind or if SWT retained the franchise and opted for a full 707 fleet would ATO still have happened?

 

[Domh245]

Was the ATO something being done specifically with the 701s in mind or if SWT retained the franchise and opted for a full 707 fleet would ATO still have happened?

There's nothing in the franchise ITT requiring ABDO (not ATO) so it's not something that would have necessarily been proposed by Stagecoach. Worth noting too that Stagecoach wouldn't have been able to submit a full 707 fleet as the units are not capable of meeting the DfT's requirement for crush loading of .25m^2/passenger

 

[hwl]

Was the ATO something being done specifically with the 701s in mind or if SWT retained the franchise and opted for a full 707 fleet would ATO still have happened?

Yes ABDO is a Bombardier innovation, you get the automated and precision stopping and auto door opening on wheel stop like you get in the Thamelink core or several LU lines without the big ATO price tag benefits. No on the 707 front.

 

[Dstock7080]

Yes ABDO is a Bombardier innovation, you get the automated and precision stopping and auto door opening on wheel stop like you get in the Thamelink core or several LU lines without the big ATO price tag benefits. No on the 707 front.

Auto door opening is not yet enabled on any LU train.

 

[Goldfish62]

Auto door opening is not yet enabled on any LU train.

As I understand it was omitted to give the driver more tasks to keep them alert.

There's nothing in the franchise ITT requiring ABDO (not ATO) so it's not something that would have necessarily been proposed by Stagecoach. Worth noting too that Stagecoach wouldn't have been able to submit a full 707 fleet as the units are not capable of meeting the DfT's requirement for crush loading of .25m^2/passenger

It was part of the proposal to meet the specified maximum dwell times as laid out in the ITT. Stagecoach would have had done something as their services didn't get anywhere meeting the dwell times.

 

[DennisM]

Does anyone know if they plan on using a CSDE system on the 701’s? Obviously ABDO mitigates against this risk at the 10 or so stations it’ll be used, but what about the rest?

 

[supervc-10]

What's CSDE? Sorry if I missed it somewhere!

 

[43096]

What's CSDE? Sorry if I missed it somewhere!

Correct Side Door Enable, I think. Stops doors opening on the wrong side.

 

[Bald Rick]

Correct Side Door Enable, I think. Stops doors opening on the wrong side.

Very pedantically, it’s function is to enable doors to open on the correct side, rather than to stop them opening on the wrong side. (It’s a different logic chain).

 

[swt_passenger]

IIRC from the description, in a magazine article back when it was new, the existing SWT ASDO trackside equipment already includes all the data for CSDE, it’s part of a standard data specification (or bit pattern).

 

[supervc-10]

That makes sense! Thanks @43096 and @Bald Rick

Definitely something important to have. Is it a part of ASDO? Using ballaises etc?

 

[43096]

Very pedantically, it’s function is to enable doors to open on the correct side, rather than to stop them opening on the wrong side. (It’s a different logic chain).

Fair point. Clue's in the name, I guess!