Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[Goldfish62]

Has anyone got some photos of the new desk / cab design?

That's something I'm keen to see out of interest. I've seen a photo of the original desk, which is identical to other Aventras.

 

[Flange Squeal]

Do you actually know that the seat is closer to the desk? It doesn't look like it from photos. There's a fair bit of room between the back of the drivers seat and the equipment cabinets in the standard Aventra cab. So the overall space being reduced in the cab doesn't mean that the seat is necessarily closer to the desk.

I guess it depends on the reliability of those who have had the opportunity to compare them with 345s. If you happen to be friendly with any future 701 drivers, they could possibly help you out with photos as one was included in a news bulletin to union members some time back. Whether they’d be willing to post them on a public forum is another matter.

 

[Goldfish62]

I guess it depends on the reliability of those who have had the opportunity to compare them with 345s. If you happen to be friendly with any future 701 drivers, they could possibly help you out with photos as one was included in a news bulletin to union members some time back. Whether they’d be willing to post them on a public forum is another matter.

I've posted a photo I took in the cab of a 345 on this thread together with a photo of the original cab of the 701 that was published in Today's Railways.

What I can say is that on the 345 there's about 0.5m space behind the driver's seat. I know that because I've stood there while going through the Elizabeth line central core.

Anyway, isn't it now the case that ASLEF'S concerns are now with outstanding faults rather than design? Let not create recreate problems that may no longer exist.

 

[TRAX]

For the umpteenth time... there is not more passenger space. There's only room behind the cab for one bay of four seats.

Isn’t that more passenger space ?

 

[Goldfish62]

Isn’t that more passenger space ?

Eh?!!!! More passenger space than what?

 

[TRAX]

Eh?!!!! More passenger space than what?

I think I understood you wrong

 

[Goldfish62]

I think I understood you wrong

If you say so.

 

[gabrielhj07]

Explosive fault on Elizabeth Line trains ‘could wipe a few people out’, whistleblower claims

Trains fitted with devices on passenger doors could blow up from a build-up of gas, but officials insist the public is not at risk

www.telegraph.co.uk

The Telegraph are reporting problems of a similar nature, and by the looks of it on a class 710.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Well, I wouldn't expect these 701s to enter service without mods now then..

 

[800001]

Explosive fault on Elizabeth Line trains ‘could wipe a few people out’, whistleblower claims

Trains fitted with devices on passenger doors could blow up from a build-up of gas, but officials insist the public is not at risk

www.telegraph.co.uk

The Telegraph are reporting problems of a similar nature, and by the looks of it on a class 710.

This was posted about many posts ago, a 345 exploded at Plumstead sidings, a safety notice was issued that staff were not to walk at trackside level next to units.

 

[gabrielhj07]

This was posted about many posts ago, a 345 exploded at Plumstead sidings, a safety notice was issued that staff were not to walk at trackside level next to units.

I was not aware of a similar incident befalling a 710

 

[swt_passenger]

Explosive fault on Elizabeth Line trains ‘could wipe a few people out’, whistleblower claims

Trains fitted with devices on passenger doors could blow up from a build-up of gas, but officials insist the public is not at risk

www.telegraph.co.uk

The Telegraph are reporting problems of a similar nature, and by the looks of it on a class 710.

Can’t read the whole article, but they refer to “fitted with devices on passenger doors”… Is that typical accuracy of the Telegraph nowadays?

 

[TRAX]

Can’t read the whole article, but they refer to “fitted with devices on passenger doors”… Is that typical accuracy of the Telegraph nowadays?

What are they talking about anyway ?

 

[AlexNL]

I think they meant "near passenger doors" which is accurate, as that's where the converter is.

 

[gabrielhj07]

Doesn't specify exactly but notes the risk of it blowing doors off. It does mention that the GA fleet is affected.

 

[Invincible]

From a previous post someone said the refurb'ed 455s after the Guildford incident where a faulty capacitor leaked gas, pressure detectors were fitted to the traction control cases to warn of other potential incidents, presumably have now been fitted to the Aventra fleet if it is what happed at Plumstead?

 

[Domh245]

From a previous post someone said the refurb'ed 455s after the Guildford incident where a faulty capacitor leaked gas, pressure detectors were fitted to the traction control cases to warn of other potential incidents, presumably have now been fitted to the Aventra fleet if it is what happed at Plumstead?

I think it's a bit to soon for them to have been fitted, but I imagine they'll be looking at fitting them, if not beginning to roll them out!

 

[Goldfish62]

I think it's a bit to soon for them to have been fitted, but I imagine they'll be looking at fitting them, if not beginning to roll them out!

Indeed. Roll them out, problem mitigated. Move on.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

Oh dear... also with cracks blighting Hitachi & CAF stock - perhaps we really should have stuck only with Stadler & Siemens for everything

 

[Sean Emmett]

Doesn't specify exactly but notes the risk of it blowing doors off. It does mention that the GA fleet is affected.

"you were only supposed to blow the bloody doors off".
Now where have I heard that one before

 

[gabrielhj07]

Oh dear... also with cracks blighting Hitachi & CAF stock - perhaps we really should have stuck only with Stadler & Siemens for everything

Goodness only knows what delights await us with the HS2 order!

 

[AlexNL]

Oh dear... also with cracks blighting Hitachi & CAF stock - perhaps we really should have stuck only with Stadler & Siemens for everything

The neighbours' grass always seems to be greener.

For example, the Siemens Combino tram delivered to many cities throughout Europe were prone to a very serious design flaw, leading to hairline cracks in joints which could result in a collapse of the vehicle's roof. This led to mass withdrawals from service of vehicles pending reinforcement of 454 intermediate modules.

And on the signalling side it's not all roses and sunshine either - a few years ago Siemens lost a big contract to automate the metro of Helsinki after significant delays and loss of trust by the client.

Stadler on the other hand seem to have an excellent track record - it's hard to find anything about major issues with products they've delivered.

 

[gabrielhj07]

Stadler on the other hand seem to have an excellent track record - it's hard to find anything about major issues with products they've delivered.

Apart from the 755's flange lubricators or course. In the whole they are very good units though.

 

[43102EMR]

There’s no hiding the fact that SWR should have just ordered 60x 10 car 707s and kept the original 30x 5 cars inherited from SWT, but we are we we are. I’m still fairly confident the 701s will enter service by the end of this year, although there’s a high chance this may not happen the rate things are going at the moment…

 

[AM9]

The neighbours' grass always seems to be greener.

For example, the Siemens Combino tram delivered to many cities throughout Europe were prone to a very serious design flaw, leading to hairline cracks in joints which could result in a collapse of the vehicle's roof. This led to mass withdrawals from service of vehicles pending reinforcement of 454 intermediate modules.

And on the signalling side it's not all roses and sunshine either - a few years ago Siemens lost a big contract to automate the metro of Helsinki after significant delays and loss of trust by the client.

Stadler on the other hand seem to have an excellent track record - it's hard to find anything about major issues with products they've delivered.

Rather than scouring other countries looking for problems with Siemens trains, I'd rather look at how they have performed in uk service. There are in total over Siemens 2500 cars forming multiple units that have been in service in the UK. They have had their issues but nothing that is looking like the tale of woe of Aventras.

 

[gabrielhj07]

There’s no hiding the fact that SWR should have just ordered 60x 10 car 707s and kept the original 30x 5 cars inherited from SWT, but we are we we are. I’m still fairly confident the 701s will enter service by the end of this year, although there’s a high chance this may not happen the rate things are going at the moment…

I wonder what the actual difference in leasing costs is for a 707 vs 701. I can't imagine the 701s are exactly 'earning their keep' at the moment, especially when SWR could have been rid of all the BREL suburban stuff by now.

 

[fgwrich]

Rather than scouring other countries looking for problems with Siemens trains, I'd rather look at how they have performed in uk service. There are in total over Siemens 2500 cars forming multiple units that have been in service in the UK. They have had their issues but nothing that is looking like the tale of woe of Aventras.

First Groups choice of ordering Aventra's always struck me as an odd one, given SWT's largely Siemens based EMU fleet (Well, of course cost no doubts played heavily on it and Bombardier's cheapness won them over). But yes, given that Siemens SW fleet have been operating very reliably day in day out for the last 20 years, the Aventra's will, when they finally enter service, have a lot to live up to.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

What I find interesting is, had the 701s been on time and entered service in mid-2019 (with 458s going first as planned), it's likely that all 458s would have been off-lease (and possibly scrapped if replaced at the same rate as SN 455s) before SWR realised the viability of the 442 operations as they did in April 21. Therefore, we could have seen them stick to the 442 programme, order more stock, or just retain a reduced service on the PDL long-term. Having said that, the PDL managed just fine without 442s and 458s before.

 

[swt_passenger]

There’s no hiding the fact that SWR should have just ordered 60x 10 car 707s and kept the original 30x 5 cars inherited from SWT, but we are we we are. I’m still fairly confident the 701s will enter service by the end of this year, although there’s a high chance this may not happen the rate things are going at the moment…

You’re using 20/20 hindsight as has often come up in this thread. In 2016/17 the DfT effectively asked for the 707s to be replaced.

 

[AM9]

You’re using 20/20 hindsight as has often come up in this thread. In 2016/17 the DfT effectively asked for the 707s to be replaced.

That "hindsight" isn't just restricted to the TOCs. The DfT has visibility of Siemens performance in the UK, so whatever was beind any directive to remove the 707s, it seems that reliability wasn't considered important enough.