Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[Nicholas Lewis]

Sorry I see the confusion, I was talking about Feltham as there used to be 5 parked there. Misread your post

Feltham was built for them so why aren't they using that location i wonder?

 

[Flange Squeal]

Feltham was built for them so why aren't they using that location i wonder?

Probably so the depot can be utilised for trains forming passenger services, with it being a depot with drivers based there? Makes sense to have the 701s places that either have spare capacity or away from the network so SWR locations can focus on operational trains. Realtime Trains seems to suggest nine trains were scheduled to leave this morning and I think Feltham only has ten sidings?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Probably so the depot can be utilised for trains forming passenger services, with it being a depot with drivers based there? Makes sense to have the 701s places that either have spare capacity or away from the network so SWR locations can focus on operational trains. Realtime Trains seems to suggest nine trains were scheduled to leave this morning and I think Feltham only has ten sidings?

Fair enough didn't realise they had reorganised existing stabling diagrams around its use already.

 

[Andy1673]

If it helps answer your question in some way, the team involved pretty much introduced 456, 458/5, 707 fleets and deliver some good things we have like depot upgrades, more sidings, bogie drop, platform extensions.

I`m sorry, that`s true of course. But 456s now all away (none in service), 707s only 12 units remain, 458s... you know very well about them. 455s are close to the end of their career (and life).

 

[Fazaar1889]

Military port used to store trains that should have entered service in 2019

Marchwood Military Port is being used to store some of the South Western Railways' Arterio trains that should have entered service in 2019

www.dailyecho.co.uk

Article says they're being stored at Marchwood Military Port

 

[Invincible]

701018 out and about on test today. Saw it at Woking and Clapham.

So might see more test/training runs next week?

From the echo
"rumours that modifications might be carried out at the railway engineering works at Eastleigh"
So software has been updated and other problems might be sorted at Eastleigh, not far from the storage area?

 

[Snow1964]

So might see more test/training runs next week?

From the echo
"rumours that modifications might be carried out at the railway engineering works at Eastleigh"
So software has been updated and other problems might be sorted at Eastleigh, not far from the storage area?

Presumably software updates and minor modifications can be done at storage location, basically anything where parts and tools fit on small van. Obviously easier to move a van than tow a whole train.

I am guessing taking them to works is for bigger work, but perhaps if there anyway easier to do it all at same time. I wonder how many trains can be sorted each each, or if this will drag on for months, or even until 2024

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Presumably software updates and minor modifications can be done at storage location, basically anything where parts and tools fit on small van. Obviously easier to move a van than tow a whole train.

I am guessing taking them to works is for bigger work, but perhaps if there anyway easier to do it all at same time. I wonder how many trains can be sorted each each, or if this will drag on for months, or even until 2024

about time there was a public enquiry into this fiasco. Alstom make 720's which are in traffic what are the issues that SWR have with them.

 

[Fastlane256]

Presumably software updates and minor modifications can be done at storage location, basically anything where parts and tools fit on small van. Obviously easier to move a van than tow a whole train.

I am guessing taking them to works is for bigger work, but perhaps if there anyway easier to do it all at same time. I wonder how many trains can be sorted each each, or if this will drag on for months, or even until 2024

I hope they are out soon. the BBC article I saw suggested 2023. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-63942543. The article saying "It has now confirmed they will enter service "as early in the New Year as possible". With them stating "issues have included the coupling process, faulty windscreen wipers and cab doors that were difficult to open." This was in top of the fact that there were technical fauts.

 

[baffobear]

This is a joke now....

 

[Elorith]

about time there was a public enquiry into this fiasco. Alstom make 720's which are in traffic what are the issues that SWR have with them.

Something I've heard a few times now is that it's in part because the 10 car units essentially function as 2 5 car trains, which is why the software works so differently than on a 710 or 720. But I suspect there's far more to it than that.

I hope they are out soon. the BBC article I saw suggested 2023.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-63942543

This is the latest claim, but the company has been claiming they'll be introduced "within the next few months" etc. for the last 3 years. Are they being realistic this time around? Only you can be the judge of that

 

[pompeyfan]

Quite a few of the 701 runs are now being crewed by SWR rather than GBRf. Various union reps, driver managers, instructors etc are now competent on them. I’m not sure when training will be rolled out to mainline drivers and depot drivers though.

 

[3973EXL]

Marchwood
701019/016/022

Paths 30/31 Jan EH TRSMD - Marchwood

Realtime Trains | 5Q95 0711½ Eastleigh Trsmd to Marchwood Mod Gbrf | 30/01/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q95 0711½ departure from Eastleigh Trsmd to Marchwood Mod Gbrf on 30/01/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

701049

Realtime Trains | 5Q96 1130½ Eastleigh Trsmd to Marchwood Mod Gbrf | 30/01/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q96 1130½ departure from Eastleigh Trsmd to Marchwood Mod Gbrf on 30/01/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Caped

Realtime Trains | 5Q95 0712½ Eastleigh Trsmd to Marchwood Mod Gbrf | 31/01/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q95 0712½ departure from Eastleigh Trsmd to Marchwood Mod Gbrf on 31/01/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

701038

Realtime Trains | 5Q96 1130½ Eastleigh Trsmd to Marchwood Mod Gbrf | 31/01/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q96 1130½ departure from Eastleigh Trsmd to Marchwood Mod Gbrf on 31/01/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

701045

 

[DelW]

Quite a few of the 701 runs are now being crewed by SWR rather than GBRf. Various union reps, driver managers, instructors etc are now competent on them. I’m not sure when training will be rolled out to mainline drivers and depot drivers though.

That sounds positive at last, does that mean that the issues the drivers had with the cab layouts have been fully resolved now?

(Apologies if that's been covered earlier, this saga has gone on so long I've lost track of some aspects of it).

 

[Trainbike46]

It's not like the other Aventras were anything resembling on time

But yes, the 701s do seem to take long even by Aventra standards

 

[Invincible]

Quite a few of the 701 runs are now being crewed by SWR rather than GBRf. Various union reps, driver managers, instructors etc are now competent on them. I’m not sure when training will be rolled out to mainline drivers and depot drivers though.

Something I've heard a few times now is that it's in part because the 10 car units essentially function as 2 5 car trains, which is why the software works so differently than on a 710 or 720. But I suspect there's far more to it than that.

I presume tests and training will be carried out on the Waterloo to Windsor and Reading lines which will be the first to go in service?

The Waterloo-Houslow-Weybridge line will possibly be more tricky for the 10 car units as there are some 8 and 9 car long platforms, some curved, where the software will have to cope with some doors not opening? As you say there may be more reasons?

 

[pompeyfan]

That sounds positive at last, does that mean that the issues the drivers had with the cab layouts have been fully resolved now?

I think it’s a case of ASLEF have come to a compromise and are willing to start training but with commitments from SWR that issues will be addressed, although I’m 100% certain on the above.

The Waterloo-Houslow-Weybridge line will possibly be more tricky for the 10 car units as there are some 8 and 9 car long platforms, some curved, where the software will have to cope with some doors not opening? As you say there may be more reasons?

I’m pretty sure that ASDO is one of the few things that’s actually worked as designed out the box.

 

[43096]

I presume tests and training will be carried out on the Waterloo to Windsor and Reading lines which will be the first to go in service?

The Waterloo-Houslow-Weybridge line will possibly be more tricky for the 10 car units as there are some 8 and 9 car long platforms, some curved, where the software will have to cope with some doors not opening? As you say there may be more reasons?

There are also short platforms on the Reading line at Longcross (7-car) and Winnersh, Winnersh Triangle and Earley (all 8-car).

 

[Bigfoot]

Quite a few of the 701 runs are now being crewed by SWR rather than GBRf. Various union reps, driver managers, instructors etc are now competent on them. I’m not sure when training will be rolled out to mainline drivers and depot drivers though.

Love to know your official source. No one from aslef is driving the 701.

 

[Goldfish62]

The Waterloo-Houslow-Weybridge line will possibly be more tricky for the 10 car units as there are some 8 and 9 car long platforms, some curved, where the software will have to cope with some doors not opening? As you say there may be more reasons?

Surely if the 458s with their primitive software can cope (mostly) then the 701s will manage.

 

[pompeyfan]

Love to know your official source. No one from aslef is driving the 701.

So you’re saying not 1 person employed by SWR that is competent on 701s is a member of ASLEF? Not even senior level LDC? We’ll have to agree to disagree.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Something I've heard a few times now is that it's in part because the 10 car units essentially function as 2 5 car trains, which is why the software works so differently than on a 710 or 720. But I suspect there's far more to it than that.


.........

Um. But if the 10-car units are effectively behaving as two 5-car units (which I believe is true) then surely that means they are behaving exactly the same as 4-car 710s and 5-car 720s when they are running in pairs ?. So there should be no software difference you could put down to unit length ?.

What I am aware of is that the 701 cab layout was seriously changed (compressed) to make the cabs shorter so a pair of 5-car 701s had doors in exactly the same place in relation to the platform as a 10-car 701. With the 720s GE abandoned their 10-car 720s in favour of twice as many 5-car 720s thus leading to a standard fleet of 720s.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Surely its time to overhaul some 455s.. its been years.

Military port used to store trains that should have entered service in 2019

Marchwood Military Port is being used to store some of the South Western Railways' Arterio trains that should have entered service in 2019

www.dailyecho.co.uk

Article says they're being stored at Marchwood Military Port

"However, the trains are reported to have been hit by software faults, problems with the coupling process, faulty windscreen wipers, and cab doors that are difficult to open."

Those seem quite critical to me.

 

[WarrenTManager]

Surely its time to overhaul some 455s.. its been years.

455s are going through C4 and C6 overhauls where required.

 

[Elorith]

Love to know your official source. No one from aslef is driving the 701.

Was going to say...I do regularly speak to the test crews during the turnaround at Waterloo but have never seen anyone who wasn't GBRf on them and the driver unions reps at my depot certainly aren't

Um. But if the 10-car units are effectively behaving as two 5-car units (which I believe is true) then surely that means they are behaving exactly the same as 4-car 710s and 5-car 720s when they are running in pairs ?. So there should be no software difference you could put down to unit length ?.

What I am aware of is that the 701 cab layout was seriously changed (compressed) to make the cabs shorter so a pair of 5-car 701s had doors in exactly the same place in relation to the platform as a 10-car 701. With the 720s GE abandoned their 10-car 720s in favour of twice as many 5-car 720s thus leading to a standard fleet of 720s.

I don't really want to speculate, but from the way I understand it, it is more like the train behaves although it is just one 5 car unit.

 

[VWRO2]

Software had to be written in a way that the train is 2 5 car units, but with only 1 cab at each end of said 5 car unit (if you see what I mean). All that with a working (ha!) coupler in the middle of the 2 5 car units with associated camera, lights etc. Hopefully now these issues have been rectified it won't be too long, however there are definitely no drivers employed by SWR at the London end of the routes that are signed off on them. All movements up this way are still being worked by GBRf staff. The trains themselves are near enough ready, I think there's only 8(?) more 10 cars and then they can start on the remaining 29 5 cars.

 

[jackot]

Software had to be written in a way that the train is 2 5 car units, but with only 1 cab at each end of said 5 car unit (if you see what I mean). All that with a working (ha!) coupler in the middle of the 2 5 car units with associated camera, lights etc. Hopefully now these issues have been rectified it won't be too long, however there are definitely no drivers employed by SWR at the London end of the routes that are signed off on them. All movements up this way are still being worked by GBRf staff. The trains themselves are near enough ready, I think there's only 8(?) more 10 cars and then they can start on the remaining 29 5 cars.

It seems Bombardier's Bangalore software division has yet again failed to develop software that works reliably, What a surprise IIRC the software is mostly copied over from the 345s (which themselves initially had software issues), so my guess is that adapting that to the 10 car units as you said has been the major issue

 

[pompeyfan]

however there are definitely no drivers employed by SWR at the London end of the routes that are signed off on them. All movements up this way are still being worked by GBRf staff.

I’m sorry but that’s not my understanding of the current situation, but short of identifying ourselves and our sources we’re not going to convince parties that have received conflicting info.

As least we can agree that no training has begun for mainline drivers.

 

[Snow1964]

It seems Bombardier's Bangalore software division has yet again failed to develop software that works reliably, What a surprise IIRC the software is mostly copied over from the 345s (which themselves initially had software issues), so my guess is that adapting that to the 10 car units as you said has been the major issue

The TfL Board papers are saying the 345s are having software update in February, so don't know if that means all the other adventra fleets (including 701s) need the same update.

Does seem rather poor software spec if Bombardier stated the adventra platform was designed to be scaleable to different number of vehicles etc.

 

[Goldfish62]

The TfL Board papers are saying the 345s are having software update in February, so don't know if that means all the other adventra fleets (including 701s) need the same update.

I am told that the Class 345 software is unique to that class due to the highly bespoke nature of the trains. They've got two different in-cab signalling systems installed for a start.