Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[Goldfish62]

701014 just went past me leaving Clapham Yard (destination unknown), looked like a bunch of SWR bods in the cab (could see the name badges).

Can confirm that the two on the Windsor side of the yard are cut in all the time now (marker lights are a bit pathetic in daytime though!).

Just seen a photo on Facebook of four stabled at Wimbledon, all with tail lights on.

 

[3973EXL]

47749 701050

Realtime Trains | 5Q64 0710 Eastleigh Trsmd to Willesden S.W.S. | 27/04/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q64 0710 departure from Eastleigh Trsmd to Willesden S.W.S. on 27/04/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q66 1009 Willesden S.W.S. to Long Marston Gbrf | 27/04/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q66 1009 departure from Willesden S.W.S. to Long Marston Gbrf on 27/04/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

47749 701052

Realtime Trains | 5Q64 0710 Eastleigh Trsmd to Willesden S.W.S. | 28/04/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q64 0710 departure from Eastleigh Trsmd to Willesden S.W.S. on 28/04/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q66 1009 Willesden S.W.S. to Long Marston Gbrf | 28/04/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q66 1009 departure from Willesden S.W.S. to Long Marston Gbrf on 28/04/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[444045]

Hi everyone, I've had a go at listing the current locations of each 701 based on various information sources available to me. I'm happy to receive any corrections and further information. Also happy to publish periodic updates. I'm based in Eastleigh so can regularly check units on test, at Arlington and at Eastleigh TRSMD Airport Sidings. File is attached.

Hi @Stew27005 ,

Update on 701 unit activity :

701041/042 both spotted in Bournemouth Depot but couldnt see 701037 which should be there.

701508/10 were moved down from Derby to Wembley on 5Q70 with 56098/50007 this week.

Hope this helps you.

 

[brownandrew15]

I saw 5Q90 Clapham Yard Sidings to Clapham Yard Sidings in Egham yesterday evening (at about 22:30), operated with 701014.

Realtime Trains | 5Q90 2016 Clapham Yard Sidings to Clapham Yard Sidings | 25/04/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q90 2016 departure from Clapham Yard Sidings to Clapham Yard Sidings on 25/04/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains and Railcam both show it as being operated by South Western Railway.
All the ones I have seen have shown ZZ rather than SW as the operator code.
Is this the first 701 to be operated by SWR, at least outside of depots and yards?

While in Egham, the doors were opened. I think I heard two sets of door opening and closing chimes.
Someone in high vis got off, walked down the platform, boarded and entered the rear cab as it departed.

 

[Stew27005]

Hi @Stew27005 ,

Update on 701 unit activity :

701041/042 both spotted in Bournemouth Depot but couldnt see 701037 which should be there.

701508/10 were moved down from Derby to Wembley on 5Q70 with 56098/50007 this week.

Hope this helps you.

Thanks very much for the info.
Ive got a fair amount of updates and will run a revised listing sometime next week.
Thanks to those of you who have provided support.

 

[Fastlane256]

Random question, does anyone know if the 701/0 and 701/5 configurations have the pantograph still attached to them? I know that SWR is currently only 3rd rail but if the Heathrow Southern Railway was to go ahead, they would need to be bi-mode.

 

[traji00]

Random question, does anyone know if the 701/0 and 701/5 configurations have the pantograph still attached to them? I know that SWR is currently only 3rd rail but if the Heathrow Southern Railway was to go ahead, they would need to be bi-mode.

A few units might have had a pantograph for dual voltage testing, but the rest don’t (presumably some ballast exists to make up the weight?).

 

[Snow1964]

Random question, does anyone know if the 701/0 and 701/5 configurations have the pantograph still attached to them? I know that SWR is currently only 3rd rail but if the Heathrow Southern Railway was to go ahead, they would need to be bi-mode.

A token number did for certification, not sure if any are still fitted, probably wanted them back to fit on a 720.

The lease Co usually likes to know they can be used on AC so it has alternative uses if returned

 

[Peter Sarf]

A token number did for certification, not sure if any are still fitted, probably wanted them back to fit on a 720.

The lease Co usually likes to know they can be used on AC so it has alternative uses if returned

Would that mean that the pantographs and transformers are still fitted to the token number ?. I am thinking maybe the early AC test results would not be valid if enough hardware and software modifications are still being made since those AC tests.

 

[AJDesiro]

In realistic situations, do the ROSCOs ever bother to modify units for OHLE or 3rd rail? I could think of many uses for stored/soon-to-be stored units...

 

[3141]

In realistic situations, do the ROSCOs ever bother to modify units for OHLE or 3rd rail? I could think of many uses for stored/soon-to-be stored units...

I don't think that question has been an issue until recent years.

There was discussion in a thread about class 365s since some of them had originally run on South eastern third rail services. I think it was concluded that the cost of restoring third rail equipment on all of them was not worthwhile. They've all gone now, anyway.

Are there many other stored or soon to be stored units? Class 379 definitely. They may have a new life with GTR as 25KW trains. Class 458 looked at one stage as though they might go for scrap but now (probably) have a new lease of life. Class 350/2 are definitely vulnerable. Most other EMUs likely to be withdrawn are 30 - 40 years old. The exceptions are classes 375 and 376 on South Eastern, if ever the DfT makes its mind up about new rolling stock there.

If a ROSCO was considering modifying EMUs for OHLE from third rail or vice versa it would want to be very sure there was a lessee who would take them.

 

[phil_]

A token number did for certification, not sure if any are still fitted, probably wanted them back to fit on a 720.

The lease Co usually likes to know they can be used on AC so it has alternative uses if returned

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that all new builds have to have a spot for a panto, even if they're being built for 3rd rail (sadly I don't have a reference for this off the top of my head)? So I would think that would include actually being able to actually use AC if configured to.

 

[WarrenTManager]

701001, 701501/502 were the pan fitted units, I thought.

 

[Mainsideman]

Have guards retained dispatch for the 701s during degraded working? I remember seeing something about this but can not find it anywhere!

 

[XAM2175]

Random question, does anyone know if the 701/0 and 701/5 configurations have the pantograph still attached to them?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that all new builds have to have a spot for a panto, even if they're being built for 3rd rail (sadly I don't have a reference for this off the top of my head)? So I would think that would include actually being able to actually use AC if configured to.

The intent is that any third-rail stock is capable of being converted to AC operation at some point in the future, should it be necessary.

I know that SWR is currently only 3rd rail but if the Heathrow Southern Railway was to go ahead, they would need to be bi-mode.

No, they wouldn't need to be "bi-mode", as that would refer to adding engines or another source of traction supply. They would simply need to be dual-voltage.

701001, 701501/502 were the pan fitted units, I thought.

Correct, these are the three units that were certified by the ORR for dual-voltage operation. The DM and PM vehicles accordingly have different design codes.

Whether the AC kit remains fitted to them is something I don't know.

 

[TEW]

Have guards retained dispatch for the 701s during degraded working? I remember seeing something about this but can not find it anywhere!

It was to be for a time limited period during introduction. I can’t remember the exact date that Metro Guards were to lose dispatch competency, but it was likely to be before one turned a wheel in service.

I suspect what will happen is that Guards will be trained to dispatch 701s when they are first introduced and whether it is retained longer term will depend how often it is put to use.

Metro Guards losing dispatch competency, and subsequently reducing the training and assessment requirements was part of the savings required to fund the drop in Guard's hours.

 

[pompeyfan]

A lot of the metro guards will need to retain dispatch competency on Desiros to work weekend engineering works via Feltham etc, also, unless the link system gets a shake up a lot of guards at places like Guildford and Woking will do metro work 1st half then a run down to Basingstoke/Alton/Pompey after their grub.

 

[TEW]

A lot of the metro guards will need to retain dispatch competency on Desiros to work weekend engineering works via Feltham etc, also, unless the link system gets a shake up a lot of guards at places like Guildford and Woking will do metro work 1st half then a run down to Basingstoke/Alton/Pompey after their grub.

The plan was all Metro Guards to lose dispatch competency and only work 701s, all the Desiro diversions would have to be covered by Commercial Guards. Mixed 701/ Desiro work and mixed method of operations was planned for Commercial Guards at inner depots.

 

[pompeyfan]

The plan was all Metro Guards to lose dispatch competency and only work 701s, all the Desiro diversions would have to be covered by Commercial Guards. Mixed 701/ Desiro work and mixed method of operations was planned for Commercial Guards at inner depots.

Surely there’s not enough commercial guards and they’ll have to grow that establishment? It also doesn’t sound particularly resilient during disruption, we’ll have to wait and see as the plan has probably changed several times since! Apparently the COO said on a recent colleague call that depot driver training has finally begun for 701s, although no news on mainline drivers.

 

[Mainsideman]

The plan was all Metro Guards to lose dispatch competency and only work 701s, all the Desiro diversions would have to be covered by Commercial Guards. Mixed 701/ Desiro work and mixed method of operations was planned for Commercial Guards at inner depots.

So woking and guilford metro guards would lose alton basingstoke and pompy? Surely that makes zero sense from a business prospective!

 

[TEW]

Surely there’s not enough commercial guards and they’ll have to grow that establishment? It also doesn’t sound particularly resilient during disruption, we’ll have to wait and see as the plan has probably changed several times since! Apparently the COO said on a recent colleague call that depot driver training has finally begun for 701s, although no news on mainline drivers.

There were always some unanswered questions. The whole deal had to get DfT approval and cost savings were necessary to keep a guard on every train and reduce working hours. Reduced training and assessment requirements was a big part of that.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Apr 2023 ==

So woking and guilford metro guards would lose alton basingstoke and pompy? Surely that makes zero sense from a business prospective!

That was certainly the plan. It may not make sense from a reliability perspective, but it does from a cost saving one.

 

[Mainsideman]

D

There were always some unanswered questions. The whole deal had to get DfT approval and cost savings were necessary to keep a guard on every train and reduce working hours. Reduced training and assessment requirements was a big part of that.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Apr 2023 ==


That was certainly the plan. It may not make sense from a reliability perspective, but it does from a cost saving one.

With regards to reduced training and assessments? Would route learning go, and guards be able to work any route basically blind?

 

[TEW]

D

With regards to reduced training and assessments? Would route learning go, and guards be able to work any route basically blind?

No, there would still be a route learning requirement, but it would be less.

 

[317 forever]

The 701s could end up spending longer not in service than GA 379s spent in service.

 

[pompeyfan]

If it’s true and guards on 701s have no dispatch competency at all, this will be the first “classic lines” safety critical but without door competency role. There is no model currently available to base what the training package will need to be.

They’ll still need PTS, Short Circuit Bar, GSMR and emergency protection training as well as some form of look and learn. Also I’m not sure any thought has been given to how guards will work the trains on crush loaded sporting events. No middle cab so loiter around the accessible vestibule and hope you don’t get covered in beer I guess!

 

[swr444]

Word on the grapevine from ops standards and various drivers is that 701s will now be driver open guard close as drivers have refused to do the final PTI check. We shall see if that’s true eventually

 

[43096]

Word on the grapevine from ops standards and various drivers is that 701s will now be driver open guard close as drivers have refused to do the final PTI check. We shall see if that’s true eventually

Don't SWR drivers have DOO-P already in their contract T&Cs?

 

[Goldfish62]

Word on the grapevine from ops standards and various drivers is that 701s will now be driver open guard close as drivers have refused to do the final PTI check. We shall see if that’s true eventually

What's PTI?

 

[Snow1964]

Word on the grapevine from ops standards and various drivers is that 701s will now be driver open guard close as drivers have refused to do the final PTI check. We shall see if that’s true eventually

Refused, or declined unless it comes with extra salary ?

 

[Carlisle]

If it’s true and guards on 701s have no dispatch competency at all, this will be the first “classic lines” safety critical but without door competency role.

Didn’t Heathrow Express initially require a second safety critical staff member for evacuation purposes, in the tunnel section at least?