Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[nlogax]

This is now beyond parody. @Peter Mugridge I'm sure Grayling was being flippant in his response to you but I'm beginning to wonder if there's a grain of truth in that guess.

 

[PG]

Grayling's constituents are, of course, directly affected by SWR's shortage of rolling stock, as he is MP for Epsom & Ewell - many stations in his cnstituency only have 50% of the services they had when SWR were awarded the contract (whilst he was Transport Secretary, as it happens)

Just need a few constituents request that he raises the matter in parliament so we can get an ironic exchange between current and former Transport Secretary!

 

[markle]

Deleted

 

[EdChap]

Re: Chris Grayling, I can well believe that it will be 2025 (or later!) before we see the new trains on the Epsom services.

 

[Goldfish62]

Re: Chris Grayling, I can well believe that it will be 2025 (or later!) before we see the new trains on the Epsom services.

I can well imagine the whole Windsor lines side going over first, so that sounds a distinct possibility.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

This is now beyond parody. @Peter Mugridge I'm sure Grayling was being flippant in his response to you but I'm beginning to wonder if there's a grain of truth in that guess.

It was indeed a nice bit of humour from him.

In answer to the later posters - we were actually talking about the first launch, not their appearance on Epsom services. As several people have said, he's keeping a close eye on what happens with these precisely because of the severe reductions in capacity locally so the appearance of the 701s is very much awaited all round. After the election, though, it'll be his successor's headache - he's stepping down.

 

[3973EXL]

5Q75 0848 EH - Bicester
701522/520

Realtime Trains | 5Q75 0848 Eastleigh Trsmd to Bicester Mod Gbrf | 20/12/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q75 0848 departure from Eastleigh Trsmd to Bicester Mod Gbrf on 20/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Goldfish62]

5Q75 0848 EH - Bicester
701522/520

Realtime Trains | 5Q75 0848 Eastleigh Trsmd to Bicester Mod Gbrf | 20/12/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q75 0848 departure from Eastleigh Trsmd to Bicester Mod Gbrf on 20/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

It really sums up the current state of affairs that trains are still being put into store rather than being prepared to enter service. It's a sick joke.

 

[D365]

It really sums up the current state of affairs that trains are still being put into store rather than being prepared to enter service. It's a sick joke.

Units are being prepared to enter service... what you're missing is that some units are not yet at the right mod level.

 

[Goldfish62]

Units are being prepared to enter service... what you're missing is that some units are not yet at the right mod level.

They might being prepared but without agreement on a training programme the last thing there's any prospect of is entering service.

 

[hwl]

Units are being prepared to enter service... what you're missing is that some units are not yet at the right mod level.

I haven't been following this saga carefully enough but is the current situation that:
a) mods and defect rectification are taking place at Eastleigh
b) are being units are delivered to Eastleigh from Derby and some initial testing takes place to generate a "to do list" for that unit
c) Some kind of optimisation /decision making process takes place to plan the work on the units
d) units are taken away to Marchwood/Worksop/Bicester/Long Marston and return to Eastleigh at some point?
e) post mods and defects rectification there is some mainline testing after which most units are then stored again at Marchwood/Worksop/Bicester/Long Marston?

 

[Mainsideman]

Realistically how long do the 455s have left? It will surely take a while to get all 701s in service possibly over a year?

 

[Socanxdis]

I wonder if the new tube trains will enter service before the 701s.

 

[Goldfish62]

Realistically how long do the 455s have left? It will surely take a while to get all 701s in service possibly over a year?

SWR have previously stated two years, which is wholly realistic and in line with other similarly large fleets. So probably into 2026, assuming they actually enter service next year.

 

[PG]

I wonder if the new tube trains will enter service before the 701s.

I'm beginning to wonder if any/some/all (delete as appropriate!) will enter service before another TOC takes over...

 

[43066]

They might being prepared but without agreement on a training programme the last thing there's any prospect of is entering service.

Indeed, and it’s unlikely there will be any such agreement before the wider dispute is resolved.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I'm beginning to wonder if any/some/all (delete as appropriate!) will enter service before another TOC takes over...

The franchise term is to August next year, with an option to extend for a further nine months to 28th May 2025............ That's 75 weeks, starting now, to get 75 trains into service.....

 

[brooklynbound]

There was a 701, I think 701027, on a test run this morning that was running so late it was effectively in the path of a real Windsor bound train. Causes confusion as when it stops the doors are unlocked with the push me to open buttons lit up. Staff try to shout don't board this train but still people were pushing the buttons. On board staff told someone they were hoping for a soft launch with a few trains in the New Year. Strangely, I can't find the train on RTT but if helps, this Windsor service became 10 minutes late thanks to it...

Realtime Trains | 2U29 1133 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside | 20/12/2023

Real-time train running information for 2U29 1133 departure from London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside on 20/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Clarence Yard]

The franchise term is to August next year, with an option to extend for a further nine months to 28th May 2025............ That's 75 weeks, starting now, to get 75 trains into service.....

No, it’s not a franchise (they all got cancelled in 2020) - it’s an NRC and the end date is May 2025, having already been extended. As it is one of the first NRC’s, it doesn’t have a core term - it just had a 26 period optional extension, which was exercised last year.

The revised 701 introduction programme will be in their annual business plan, as agreed with the DfT.

 

[norbitonflyer]

No, it’s not a franchise (they all got cancelled in 2020) - it’s an NRC and the end date is May 2025, having already been extended. As it is one of the first NRC’s, it doesn’t have a core term - it just had a 26 period optional extension, which was exercised last year.

The revised 701 introduction programme will be in their annual business plan, as agreed with the DfT.

Sorry - right date, outdated terminology.

 

[Goldfish62]

Indeed, and it’s unlikely there will be any such agreement before the wider dispute is resolved.

Although the wider dispute doesn't seem to have impacted on other TOCs' training programmes so why should it with SWR? Although I do realise that SWR seems to be an exception much of the time.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

Strangely, I can't find the train on RTT but if helps, this Windsor service became 10 minutes late thanks to it...

There's 5Q21 round the Hounslow loop, but RTT says that it didn't run. If it was ten minutes late by the time it reached Richmond, it would have arrived at 11:52, the scheduled time for the Windsor train.

Realtime Trains | 5Q21 1115 London Waterloo to London Waterloo | 20/12/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q21 1115 departure from London Waterloo to London Waterloo on 20/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[43OO4]

Just had a thought...

Even if SWR's internal disputes are resolved, GWR could still quite easily disrupt the rollout on the Reading line if either DCO or DOO is implemented. Given that all passenger services out of 4, 5 and 6 are all currently dispatched with a guard, this would be a break from the norm and I'd imagine RMT would try leveraging Reading if things, once again, turn sour between RMT and SWR. Purely speculative, but even if things are all good with SWR internally, they're not necessarily out of the woods yet.

 

[cactustwirly]

Just had a thought...

Even if SWR's internal disputes are resolved, GWR could still quite easily disrupt the rollout on the Reading line if either DCO or DOO is implemented. Given that all passenger services out of 4, 5 and 6 are all currently dispatched with a guard, this would be a break from the norm and I'd imagine RMT would try leveraging Reading if things, once again, turn sour between RMT and SWR. Purely speculative, but even if things are all good with SWR internally, they're not necessarily out of the woods yet.

I don't understand what issue you're trying to make out?

 

[Towers]

Just had a thought...

Even if SWR's internal disputes are resolved, GWR could still quite easily disrupt the rollout on the Reading line if either DCO or DOO is implemented. Given that all passenger services out of 4, 5 and 6 are all currently dispatched with a guard, this would be a break from the norm and I'd imagine RMT would try leveraging Reading if things, once again, turn sour between RMT and SWR. Purely speculative, but even if things are all good with SWR internally, they're not necessarily out of the woods yet.

GWR’s station staff at Reading already routinely operate RA equipment and dispatch DOO trains every day, it’s very unlikely that any issues would arise with that.

 

[Snow1964]

Realistically how long do the 455s have left? It will surely take a while to get all 701s in service possibly over a year?

Some of the remaining ones are getting fairly close to needing overhauls.

With the major refurb (about 12 years ago) and new traction packages (about 8 years ago), almost certainly could get another 5 years out of them. But that is dependent on paying for major overhauls (whilst simultaneously paying for new trains too).

Bit of a question mark, over if there are now enough 455s to have few away for major work too, whilst leaving enough for service.

 

[Towers]

Some of the remaining ones are getting fairly close to needing overhauls.

With the major refurb (about 12 years ago) and new traction packages (about 8 years ago), almost certainly could get another 5 years out of them. But that is dependent on paying for major overhauls (whilst simultaneously paying for new trains too).

Bit of a question mark, over if there are now enough 455s to have few away for major work too, whilst leaving enough for service.

Well I guess it’d be a case of have a few away for major work or have them away permanently, withdrawn?!

 

[43OO4]

GWR’s station staff at Reading already routinely operate RA equipment and dispatch DOP trains every day, it’s very unlikely that any issues would arise with that.

Having worked at the station, I'm well aware, however I can also state that P4, 5 and 6 often see huge surges of people all filing through a very small entrance, unlike most other platforms, which have two entrances. From experience, handling passengers on a Twickenham night is bad enough with a guard-assisted dispatch.

 

[Towers]

Having worked at the station, I'm well aware, however I can also state that P4, 5 and 6 often see huge surges of people all filing through a very small entrance, unlike most other platforms, which have two entrances. From experience, handling passengers on a Twickenham night is bad enough with a guard-assisted dispatch.

Additional dispatchers or other staff assisting on the platform should sort that.

 

[43OO4]

Additional dispatchers or other staff assisting on the platform should sort that.

I believe SWR actually mandate that there are two dispatchers for 4, 5 and 6, but I honestly can't tell you a time I've seen this happen.