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Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

DelW

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Programme Director, Network Performance Board, DfT Operator.

Clearly a move up the ladder, I'd say.
Wow. Just how badly do you have to do your job in the railway industry to actually be demoted?

I'd have though late-night toilet cleaner at Waterloo would have been a more suitable position. How many millions of pounds of taxpayers' money has this programme wasted, and now he gets the chance to do it all again?
 
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Goldfish62

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Wow. Just how badly do you have to do your job in the railway industry to actually be demoted?

I'd have though late-night toilet cleaner at Waterloo would have been a more suitable position. How many millions of pounds of taxpayers' money has this programme wasted, and now he gets the chance to do it all again?
He did only take up the role in October 2022, by which time the whole thing was already a disaster, so he can't really take the entire blame. Frankly I don't blame him for wanting to get out quickly.
 

swtrains

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Almost no 701s are running today, only one diagram will be doing Windsor today in the evening. Looks like a pair of 458/5s (530, 535) have had to be split to cover both Windsor and Shepperton's missing 701s.
 

Oxalin

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Stock is being shared between unusual routes today to reduce turnarounds - the 09:33 Waterloo to Windsor this morning formed off a train arriving from Havant for example. (Are some platforms closed? The old international platforms certainly looked so earlier, but Traksy shows trains in them now...)
Given the still somewhat limited routes 701s are operating, I can see why it might have been decided better to avoid using too many today if that stock sharing is continuing throughout the day, rather than just a one-off that I happened to see!
 

DelW

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He did only take up the role in October 2022, by which time the whole thing was already a disaster, so he can't really take the entire blame. Frankly I don't blame him for wanting to get out quickly.
Fair enough, blame maybe needs to be shared, but we haven't exactly seen a big improvement in progress since October 2022 ...
 

Goldfish62

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Fair enough, blame maybe needs to be shared, but we haven't exactly seen a big improvement in progress since October 2022 ...
The trains started entering service under his tenure. I'd say that a big improvement. The latest debacle would have happened long after he handed in his notice and he most likely would have been on gardening leave before the end of last year.
 
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He did only take up the role in October 2022, by which time the whole thing was already a disaster, so he can't really take the entire blame. Frankly I don't blame him for wanting to get out quickly.
He departed after the big mess up with ASLEF and the new driver training programme. On his page he is stated as a union negotiator....
 
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Goldfish62

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He departed after the big mess up with ASLEF and the new driver training programme. On his page he is stated as a union negotiator....
I think you may be jumping to conclusions unless you've got insider knowledge.

Which particular mess up with ASLEF are you meaning? There seem to be have been several since 2017.

He most likely had to give six months notice when resigning, meaning that with gardening leave he may not even have been around since July. And just because someone listed union negotiation as a claimed skill it doesn't mean that they're always involved in every single negotiation.
 

43096

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And just because someone listed union negotiation as a claimed skill it doesn't mean that they're always involved in every single negotiation.
And just because they claim it on Linked-In it doesn't mean that they're actually any good at it!
 

Snow1964

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The driver training pause is caused by a dispute with ASLEF regarding the new terms.
New terms of using them once trained, or new terms of training on them.

If it is former it is bit illogical to pause training if there is limited training capacity, as presumably as soon as dispute is resolved, those trained could start driving them in service. So continuing training in meantime would help.

I think I need someone to explain why no training currently is deemed better way of getting more drivers trained, than continuing to run the previous agreed course, until any changes are agreed
 

TEW

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New terms of using them once trained, or new terms of training on them.

If it is former it is bit illogical to pause training if there is limited training capacity, as presumably as soon as dispute is resolved, those trained could start driving them in service. So continuing training in meantime would help.

I think I need someone to explain why no training currently is deemed better way of getting more drivers trained, than continuing to run the previous agreed course, until any changes are agreed
The agreed course can't run as it involves DCO and there are insufficient stations now to train DCO.
 

norbitonflyer

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Almost no 701s are running today [Saturday], only one diagram will be doing Windsor today in the evening. Looks like a pair of 458/5s (530, 535) have had to be split to cover both Windsor and Shepperton's missing 701s.
Just one 701 running again today.
 

TEW

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I thought the revised course didn't include DCO (apart from driver release of the doors).
The revised course doesn't, but it's not been agreed by ASLEF. (Not anything to do with the course itself.) The agreed course is the original one which does include DCO but the infrastructure doesn't allow that course to be delivered.
 

Snow1964

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The revised course doesn't, but it's not been agreed by ASLEF. (Not anything to do with the course itself.) The agreed course is the original one which does include DCO but the infrastructure doesn't allow that course to be delivered.
Are you saying a course that can't be delivered was agreed.

Makes me wonder Who's bright idea was that.
 

TEW

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Are you saying a course that can't be delivered was agreed.

Makes me wonder Who's bright idea was that.
When it was agreed, it could be delivered. Subsequently there has been a reduction in the number of stations passed for DCO operation, so it can no longer be delivered.
 

norbitonflyer

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When it was agreed, it could be delivered. Subsequently there has been a reduction in the number of stations passed for DCO operation, so it can no longer be delivered.
What has changed so that stations which were passed for DCO are now not passed?
 

Peter Sarf

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What has changed so that stations which were passed for DCO are now not passed?
I think no one checked thoroughly. And then those that had to live with it pointed out to those who wanted it to work that it would not work.
Principally down to visibility issues with the cameras + screens.

To me it looks like no one wants to spend money getting it sorted - so arguing is cheaper.

Meanwhile the drivers get paid to do DOO, which they cannot do.
 

Carlisle

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I think no one checked thoroughly. And then those that had to live with it pointed out to those who wanted it to work that it would not work.
They’ve surely had more time to test the 701 fleet than any other UK multiple unit type that’s entered service in at least the last 50 years
 
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NSEWonderer

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Today's testing:

5T91 - Clapham Yard - Clapham Yard - goes to Woking, then Guildford, reverses back to Woking, heads up the Byfleet curve to Virginia Water, reverses, goes back to Woking, goes up to Surbiton, reverses, heads back to Woking, then Guildford, reverses back to Woking and heads back to the yard.
701042
 

Bikeman78

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When it was agreed, it could be delivered. Subsequently there has been a reduction in the number of stations passed for DCO operation, so it can no longer be delivered.
So how are there any class 701s running?
 

TEW

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So how are there any class 701s running?
Guard dispatches throughout. Guard dispatch was covered in the agreed course in degraded scenarios. But the new, shorter course which only covers guard dispatch has not been agreed.
 

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