Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[mansonlo49]

Isn't it seven units being used?

I've had seven for haulage, NOT including 701 028 which only briefly escaped into service a long time ago.

The ones I've had are:

701 017
701 031
701 034
701 036
701 037
701 039
701 043

Unless one of those has been pulled from service?

think 046 was out about

 

[Nimbus020]

Yes you're correct, I used the amount of diagrams rather than all the units being rotated around, apologies

Have 701s been removed from some diagrams?

If SWR want to introduced 31 new diagrams by Christmas, they'll need to add 3-4 each month (starting from May). Previously it was 1-2, so with the new shorter course this seems reasonable.

Re. 701 diagram removal: yes, the 06:24 Waterloo to Dorking / 07:30 Dorking to Waterloo was a '701' for a short while (this unit took over what'd previously been a Surbiton to Waterloo 'peak' service in preceding weeks)

 

[TEW]

Based on the May 2025 diagrams you would probably need 25 701 diagrams to eliminate the 455s which is the first aim, so only another 19.
You would need a lot of crew trained to achieve that probably though as they would be spread across the suburban network.

 

[Bikeman78]

Based on the May 2025 diagrams you would probably need 25 701 diagrams to eliminate the 455s which is the first aim, so only another 19.
You would need a lot of crew trained to achieve that probably though as they would be spread across the suburban network.

I thought there were still 30 pairs of 455s diagrammed? Is that reducing in May? More 458 diagrams?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

think 046 was out about

You're right... I just checked RTT at 701 046 is on the all day Shepperton today.

 

[TEW]

I thought there were still 30 pairs of 455s diagrammed? Is that reducing in May? More 458 diagrams?

Down to 22 pairs and 1 single 455 from May. 12 pairs of 458/4s diagrammed.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

Based on the May 2025 diagrams you would probably need 25 701 diagrams to eliminate the 455s which is the first aim, so only another 19.
You would need a lot of crew trained to achieve that probably though as they would be spread across the suburban network.

You would not need to replace the 455s one for one with 701s over the whole suburban network. Just cover them with displaced 405s so you could concentrate the 701s on a restricted area of the network

 

[Nimbus020]

You would not need to replace the 455s one for one with 701s over the whole suburban network. Just cover them with displaced 405s so you could concentrate the 701s on a restricted area of the network

Sounds like a credible plan! - presumably all the 701 units won't be needed anyway? (barring a major change in today's timetable - unlikely in the current economic climate)

 

[Siemens Staines]

Down to 22 pairs and 1 single 455 from May. 12 pairs of 458/4s diagrammed.

Thank you for this information. If 455s go down from 60 diagrams to 45, and 458/4 go up from 18 to 24, then that still leaves a shortfall of 9 4-car units when compared to now. Does that mean the number of 701 diagrams increases from 6 in May, or does that mean further shortening of main line Desiro diagrams? I was assuming the pair of 458/5 diagram would end in May, but perhaps it does not.

 

[Goldfish62]

Sounds like a credible plan! - presumably all the 701 units won't be needed anyway? (barring a major change in today's timetable - unlikely in the current economic climate)

Stated in Modern Railways that a timetable recast is planned for 2026 (first one for 22 years!), but even then I can't see a massive extra requirement for 701s.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Stated in Modern Railways that a timetable recast is planned for 2026 (first one for 22 years!), but even then I can't see a massive extra requirement for 701s.

22 years? Has it really been that long? Better late than never I guess..

 

[Bald Rick]

22 years? Has it really been that long? Better late than never I guess..

Yes the last main recast was 2004. However, I wouldn’t bank on 2026. The formal process for May 2026 has started already (today!) and that is way too soon for a recast of this nature. I can’t see it happening in December either, to be honest, lots of work to do before it gets to that point.

 

[Goldfish62]

Yes the last main recast was 2004. However, I wouldn’t bank on 2026. The formal process for May 2026 has started already (today!) and that is way too soon for a recast of this nature. I can’t see it happening in December either, to be honest, lots of work to do before it gets to that point.

It was Andrew Haines who stated that there would be a recast in 2026 "at the conclusion of the Arterio rollout". On that particular point I guess it's a case of how long is a piece of string?!

 

[43096]

You would not need to replace the 455s one for one with 701s over the whole suburban network. Just cover them with displaced 405s so you could concentrate the 701s on a restricted area of the network

Must be desperate if they’re bringing the 4-SUBs back!

 

[Goldfish62]

Must be desperate if they’re bringing the 4-SUBs back!

 

[Bigfoot]

Courses for drivers being booked for throughout May, things are progressing.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Must be desperate if they’re bringing the 4-SUBs back!

My thoughts entirely. Using 4-SUBs is a way of making the passengers appreciate the 455s even if they do not have aircon and loos !.
I eventually got disappointed when I realised must be meaning 450s ?.

 

[DelW]

Stated in Modern Railways that a timetable recast is planned for 2026 (first one for 22 years!), but even then I can't see a massive extra requirement for 701s.

Didn't SWR promise a big timetable recast after they took over in 2017? Obviously it didn't happen, though I can't remember why not, maybe it was so delayed that it disappeared into the chaos of Covid cancellations.

My thoughts entirely. Using 4-SUBs is a way of making the passengers appreciate the 455s even if they do not have aircon and loos !.
I eventually got disappointed when I realised must be meaning 450s ?.

At least the SUBs had decent upholstery, even if it was usually pretty dusty!

 

[Goldfish62]

Didn't SWR promise a big timetable recast after they took over in 2017? Obviously it didn't happen, though I can't remember why not, maybe it was so delayed that it disappeared into the chaos of Covid cancellations.

It never happened due to Covid. It was this timetable on which the number of 701s ordered was based and why there are now surplus units.

An alternative recast timetable was promised for December 2021, but again never happened due to demand failing to recover after Covid.

 

[Snow1964]

Didn't SWR promise a big timetable recast after they took over in 2017? Obviously it didn't happen, though I can't remember why not, maybe it was so delayed that it disappeared into the chaos of Covid cancellations.

Yes, originally the final 701 was to enter service by early December 2020, and the slower 455s would have been gone by Oct or Nov 2020 (depending on if last 455 or 458 was last of old fleet to go).

With the old (slower) trains gone, the timetable recast (and speeded up suburban services) should have happened December 2020. As timetables normally take about 18 months to finalise (or nearer 2 years for a complete recast), there would have been around 9-15 months of formulating before Covid struck.

Things probably started slipping when first 701s failed to be in operation Autumn 2019. (There was a table of dates for both 5car and 10 car units from Autumn 2019 to Dec 2020 in service, not just delivered). Under this about third of fleet should have been in service when Covid started, so any comment that first trains were delayed by Covid is balderdash

 

[Feathers44]

Re. 701 diagram removal: yes, the 06:24 Waterloo to Dorking / 07:30 Dorking to Waterloo was a '701' for a short while (this unit took over what'd previously been a Surbiton to Waterloo 'peak' service in preceding weeks)

And it was lovely while it lasted. Well, except for the day it failed at Raynes Park with reported door issues. (I wasn’t on it but had been on the pair of 458s that failed there 2 days earlier, also for door issues. Getting a rammed ten car dumped on your platform twice in a week must have been a real treat for the station staff.)

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Courses for drivers being booked for throughout May, things are progressing.

I assume you mean more are being booked on next month adding to the ones booked this month, since assuming all went well training restarted on Tuesday?

 

[swr444]

it's a 701 in next week's STP's so we'll see

And it was lovely while it lasted. Well, except for the day it failed at Raynes Park with reported door issues. (I wasn’t on it but had been on the pair of 458s that failed there 2 days earlier, also for door issues. Getting a rammed ten car dumped on your platform twice in a week must have been a real treat for the station staff.)

 

[Bigfoot]

I assume you mean more are being booked on next month adding to the ones booked this month, since assuming all went well training restarted on Tuesday?

I'm not sure how else my post could be interpreted?

 

[OneTrackMinded]

I'm not sure how else my post could be interpreted?

It could be interpreted as meaning that courses were being booked next month and hadn't been booked this month since Tuesday

 

[Peter Sarf]

The acid test will be more 701s in service and at what pace. I am sure there will be other hiccups after training.
The next few months will be telling.

One factor is how many extra 701s are passenger ready ?.
And at what rate more 701s an be got ready for passenger service ?.
I guess some 701s (built over five years ago) will be a terrible task to get commissioned. Hopefully not too many have been rotting by the sea.

Assuming no other hurdles.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

Must be desperate if they’re bringing the 4-SUBs back!

numbers problem meant 450s

 

[OneTrackMinded]

and at what pace.

They need to introduce 3-4 each month starting from May to reach the target of 31 new diagrams by Christmas

One factor is how many extra 701s are passenger ready ?.

10 if we remove the 7 already in service from the 17 figure

 

[Peter Sarf]

They need to introduce 3-4 each month starting from May to reach the target of 31 new diagrams by Christmas

10 if we remove the 7 already in service from the 17 figure

Are those ten "spare" 701s being used for training or are other 701s being used for training ?.

If 3-4 701s go into service each month that means 3-4 x 701s per month need to be got ready for training or service.

 

[Bikeman78]

Down to 22 pairs and 1 single 455 from May. 12 pairs of 458/4s diagrammed.

Thanks. It's been suggested upthread that there are already nine pairs of 458/4/ How many class 701 diagrams are there? My point is, if there are 30 pairs of 455s now, what changes next month? What is the single unit doing?