Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[Goldfish62]

Anyone know how the depot driver training is going? Seems to be taking an age to train to a relatively small group of staff, although I appreciate that three weeks have been lost due to industrial action.

 

[Bigfoot]

Anyone know how the depot driver training is going? Seems to be taking an age to train to a relatively small group of staff, although I appreciate that three weeks have been lost due to industrial action.

Not heard anything directly, but all trained or not it doesn't make a great deal of difference. The stock still hasn't reached a stage where it is fit for service/mainline driver training yet.

 

[InOban]

Not heard anything directly, but all trained or not it doesn't make a great deal of difference. The stock still hasn't reached a stage where it is fit for service/mainline driver training yet.

Who makes that decision?

It would seem to me that there is a lot to be gained by crew training on imperfect software where they will get plenty of experience in fault rectification and operating in degraded modes. Certainly the Elizabeth line training didn't wait until the software was good enough to satisfy the safety bodies.

Or are the old school putting off the evil hour, AKA the 21st century?

 

[Goldfish62]

Who makes that decision?

It would seem to me that there is a lot to be gained by crew training on imperfect software where they will get plenty of experience in fault rectification and operating in degraded modes. Certainly the Elizabeth line training didn't wait until the software was good enough to satisfy the safety bodies.

Or are the old school putting off the evil hour, AKA the 21st century?

Indeed. I doubt if any rolling has ever entered service with all known faults ironed out beforehand.

But then this is SWR, and things seem to work differently and very slowly on the South Western. I certainly get the impression from this thread alone that there are plenty of staff who never want the trains introduced, for reasons best known to themselves.

 

[aleggatta]

I wonder, whether this will be the first fleet to spend more time in storage than running in service before requiring a major overhaul? Whilst they have done little mileage, some components will have a ticking clock before they have to be replaced (thinking of rubberised suspension components especially)

 

[Fastlane256]

I wonder, whether this will be the first fleet to spend more time in storage than running in service before requiring a major overhaul? Whilst they have done little mileage, some components will have a ticking clock before they have to be replaced (thinking of rubberised suspension components especially)

I wonder how close the 180s got to that.

 

[Invincible]

Indeed. I doubt if any rolling has ever entered service with all known faults ironed out beforehand.

But then this is SWR, and things seem to work differently and very slowly on the South Western. I certainly get the impression from this thread alone that there are plenty of staff who never want the trains introduced, for reasons best known to themselves.

The 701 trains were ordered without guards panels in a time when relationships between the unions and SWR management were low and taking a long time to repair, eventually the MD was replaced. Although SWR then said they would not operate 701s without guards, the panels were retrospectively fitted, but SWR wanted conditions they could operate without guards sometimes, which was unacceptable to the unions, but have now said all trains will have a guard.

South Western Railway: Andy Mellors to be replaced as managing director

South Western Railway's managing director, who has been leading talks to avert strike action, will move to a new role.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Goldfish62]

The 701 trains were ordered without guards panels in a time when relationships between the unions and SWR management were low and taking a long time to repair, eventually the MD was replaced. Although SWR then said they would not operate 701s without guards, the panels were retrospectively fitted, but SWR wanted conditions they could operate without guards sometimes, which was unacceptable to the unions, but have now said all trains will have a guard.

South Western Railway: Andy Mellors to be replaced as managing director

South Western Railway's managing director, who has been leading talks to avert strike action, will move to a new role.

www.bbc.co.uk

That's old news. That was agreed literally years ago.

 

[NSEWonderer]

Who makes that decision?

It would seem to me that there is a lot to be gained by crew training on imperfect software where they will get plenty of experience in fault rectification and operating in degraded modes. Certainly the Elizabeth line training didn't wait until the software was good enough to satisfy the safety bodies.

Or are the old school putting off the evil hour, AKA the 21st century?

The 345s did wait till the software was good enough to satisfy the safety bodies as would any of the new Aventras. The 701s issues are more far fetched than just software else it wouldn't be rolling on the rails on testing or greenlighted for depot driver training. The main issues now with the 345s are indeed troublesome but not enough to full cause safety concerns, not least after the updates to prevent rollback and also the fixes for the exploding undercarriages.

 

[Invincible]

That's old news. That was agreed literally years ago.

I gave as a possible reason why "plenty of staff who never want the trains introduced, for reasons best known to themselves"?
There may be other reasons, sounds like there are still some stock and software issues, but should not affect training?

 

[TEW]

The 701 trains were ordered without guards panels in a time when relationships between the unions and SWR management were low and taking a long time to repair, eventually the MD was replaced. Although SWR then said they would not operate 701s without guards, the panels were retrospectively fitted, but SWR wanted conditions they could operate without guards sometimes, which was unacceptable to the unions, but have now said all trains will have a guard.

South Western Railway: Andy Mellors to be replaced as managing director

South Western Railway's managing director, who has been leading talks to avert strike action, will move to a new role.

www.bbc.co.uk

701s have always had guard's panels.

 

[Invincible]

701s have always had guard's panels.

Not sure how correct this article from 2020 is?

Guards in Name Only? Dwell Times And The SWR Guards Dispute - London Reconnections

The leading source for independent news and analysis about transport in London and beyond. Award-winning coverage of transport infrastructure and politics alongside stories about the history of the Capital's transport networks.

www.londonreconnections.com

"The order for the trains consists of 60 10-car sets and 30 5-car sets. They are expected to have ABDO capability, although this may not be initially present. What they do not have is guard’s panels for guards to operate the doors, other than a facility to prevent the doors being closed. This is in case the guard is on the platform assisting mobility-impaired passengers, for example. Clearly, if the driver cannot close the doors, the train cannot depart."

"In order for the RMT to ‘win’ the dispute, the 90 new trains would have to be retrofitted with guard’s panels and, if that were done, some of the advantages of modernising SWR would be lost."

 

[TEW]

Not sure how correct this article from 2020 is?

Incorrect.

 

[800001]

701039 just departed Eastleigh at 0612 working 5Q50 to Waterloo.
Same unit worked 5Q52 Staines to Eastleigh yesterday.

 

[pompeyfan]

There’s a regular SWR operated 701 path (5Q20/5Q21), this is for operation trainers (Basingstoke School) and Ops standards to write the appropriate training package for 701s, including DCO

 

[Goldfish62]

I gave as a possible reason why "plenty of staff who never want the trains introduced, for reasons best known to themselves"?

Ah right, yes understand your point now!

 

[Invincible]

Incorrect.

Thanks, the 2020 London Reconnections article goes into a lot of detail on the 701, wondered how true it was?.

 

[fgwrich]

There’s a regular SWR operated 701 path (5Q20/5Q21), this is for operation trainers (Basingstoke School) and Ops standards to write the appropriate training package for 701s, including DCO

So are these now being operated by SWR crew then? And does this offer a glimpse of hope that we may see entry into traffic soon?

 

[pompeyfan]

So are these now being operated by SWR crew then? And does this offer a glimpse of hope that we may see entry into traffic soon?

Yes they’re driven by members of SWRs operations teams who hold driver competency, and they’re under SWR safety case with units accepted by SWR. Whether or not that means they’re any closer to service is anyone’s guess.

 

[Goldfish62]

Yes they’re driven by members of SWRs operations teams who hold driver competency, and they’re under SWR safety case with units accepted by SWR. Whether or not that means they’re any closer to service is anyone’s guess.

Logically of course, assuming they end up entering service at some stage and aren't sent straight for scrap, they are closer to entering services that they were, say, a couple of months ago, or indeed compared to when I started writing this post.

 

[fgwrich]

Yes they’re driven by members of SWRs operations teams who hold driver competency, and they’re under SWR safety case with units accepted by SWR. Whether or not that means they’re any closer to service is anyone’s guess.

That's good to hear, Thanks. Means a little bit of progress has finally taken place then!

 

[spark001uk]

There’s a regular SWR operated 701 path (5Q20/5Q21), this is for operation trainers (Basingstoke School) and Ops standards to write the appropriate training package for 701s, including DCO

Looks like that diagram is completed with 5Q22/23/24 (two more round the Hounslow loop and one to Clapham yd), although not always worked.
Eg. 5Q22 today only went as far as Clapham, assume path used to return to the yard.

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Realtime Trains | 5Q18 1108 Derby Litchurch Lane to Eastleigh Trsmd | 15/09/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q18 1108 departure from Derby Litchurch Lane to Eastleigh Trsmd on 15/09/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

47749 + 701057, currently running RT.

 

[jwhite9185]

Looks like that diagram is completed with 5Q22/23/24 (two more round the Hounslow loop and one to Clapham yd), although not always worked.
Eg. 5Q22 today only went as far as Clapham, assume path used to return to the yard.

----

Realtime Trains | 5Q18 1108 Derby Litchurch Lane to Eastleigh Trsmd | 15/09/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q18 1108 departure from Derby Litchurch Lane to Eastleigh Trsmd on 15/09/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

47749 + 701057, currently running RT.

Just caught this one go past, very slowly.

(Not the best pics ever - easier in winter with less leaves on the trees)

 

[Fazaar1889]

Just caught this one go past, very slowly.

(Not the best pics ever - easier in winter with less leaves on the trees)

View attachment 142887


View attachment 142888

Idk what you're taking about, there are lovely pictures! A different perspective from what we usually see, like the view at Clapham Junction.

 

[NSEUser]

Brief shot of Arterios stored at Soton Docks as I left on a cruise this afternoon.

 

[Sun Chariot]

That's the Marchwood MoD facility, nicely visible seaward side - thanks for posting the photo

 

[MDB1images]

701505 & 701507 dragged Workop Down Yard to Eastleigh TRSMD on 12/09/23.

 

[Goldfish62]

Just spotted 701039 going through Clapham Junction on the Down Main.

 

[800001]

Just spotted 701039 going through Clapham Junction on the Down Main.

It’s been out several days over the last week testing out of Eastleigh. Certainly Thurs, Fri and Saturday.

 

[tricky18jan]

Morning all, does anyone know the ID’s of the 701’s that were at Clapham on Sunday morning ?

I noted 701037, 701042, 701043 and 2 others that I couldn’t quite see

Any help appreciated

Rich