Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[43096]

But what indicates a 701 instead of any other stock?

Because 1) it is an additional service, outside of the normal service pattern and 2) it is a 'Q' path so may not run.

 

[Waterlemon]

Its meant for the soft launch, no chance it runs without managers for both driver and guard.

 

[JonathanH]

Possibly for 2 consecutive days...

Or two chances to run it for one day.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

How typical it's the week I'm in America. I'm coming back home to SWR land just the week after. Will be gutted beyond belief to miss this.

 

[davews]

RTT still shows it as Q, runs as required. Don't hedge your bets.....

 

[norbitonflyer]

Realtime Trains | 2U91 1025 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside | 14/12/2023

Real-time train running information for 2U91 1025 departure from London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside on 14/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Looks like a 701 might be in service this week….

Oh the irony. I will be attending the funeral of a fellow enthusiast at exactly the time that will be running.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Oh the irony. I will be attending the funeral of a fellow enthusiast at exactly the time that will be running.

Sorry to hear that. The 701s don't bring the best of luck with them it seems..

 

[Juniper Driver]

I take it, it will be like the introduction of the Desiro's with plenty of fitters about.

 

[CarrotPie]

RTT still shows it as Q, runs as required. Don't hedge your bets.....

Runs if they can get it out the yard...

 

[Invincible]

So on the 14th there could be 3 701 tests
1. Eastleigh Waterloo Poole Staines Eastleigh
2. Eastleigh Staines Southampton Eastleigh
3. Waterloo Windsor Waterloo

 

[Goldfish62]

I take it, it will be like the introduction of the Desiro's with plenty of fitters about.

I went on the one-off working from Reading of a pair of 707s under SWT and that was full of Siemens staff with laptops.

 

[SWT_USER]

I will aim to catch the Windsor service on Thursday if it runs. Won't hold my breath though given how everything has gone so far..

 

[Robin Procter]

Whether or not some form of soft launch is actually achieved this year, surely it’s time for all of us who travel on SWR - and are aware - to write to our MPs and the Press, to make sure this disgraceful matter does get some publicity.

.... Do you not think that there many other rather more important matters to write to MPs about? Do you realise just how many incoming letters from the public that MPs have to deal with? Inform the Press if you like but don't hold your breath expecting publicity just because a new train set is late. It's normal for any major industrial design project such as a railway train to run later than the dates advertised by operating companies, and others, who can gain commercially from promoting their future introductions and their perceived benefits. Any MP would merely send you a polite acknowledgement and be highly unlikely to actually act on this matter.

You are still able to travel on SWR aren't you? A train will be along sooon, so it's time to chill and relax.

 

[43096]

.... Do you not think that there many other rather more important matters to write to MPs about? Do you realise just how many incoming letters from the public that MPs have to deal with? Inform the Press if you like but don't hold your breath expecting publicity just because a new train set is late. It's normal for any major industrial design project such as a railway train to run later than the dates advertised by operating companies, and others, who can gain commercially from promoting their future introductions and their perceived benefits. Any MP would merely send you a polite acknowledgement and be highly unlikely to actually act on this matter.

You are still able to travel on SWR aren't you? A train will be along sooon, so it's time to chill and relax.

It’s rather more than the normal, though. These are FOUR years late, there is considerable uncertainty over whether there is an agreed method of working them and taxpayers are paying for two sets of trains whilst the fiasco is sorted out.

 

[adc82140]

But these days is it not effectively public money that's being spent on leasing these trains, alongside leasing a fleet which should have gone by now.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

.... Do you not think that there many other rather more important matters to write to MPs about? Do you realise just how many incoming letters from the public that MPs have to deal with? Inform the Press if you like but don't hold your breath expecting publicity just because a new train set is late. It's normal for any major industrial design project such as a railway train to run later than the dates advertised by operating companies, and others, who can gain commercially from promoting their future introductions and their perceived benefits. Any MP would merely send you a polite acknowledgement and be highly unlikely to actually act on this matter.

You are still able to travel on SWR aren't you? A train will be along sooon, so it's time to chill and relax.

No, you’re criticising the wrong person here, the stakeholder, who is a victim of the situation. Direct your admonition at the TOC, who ordered this fleet six and a half years ago. The full fleet should have been in service four years ago, and instead we’ve had to deal with absolutely shot and knackered 455s without basic facilities such as even temperature control, and completely neglected 458s, almost all short formed.

But these days is it not effectively public money that's being spent on leasing these trains, alongside leasing a fleet which should have gone by now.

Precisely, and I would not consider it unreasonable to expect some form of compensation by offering a reduction in South Western Railway inner suburban fares. I know it won’t happen, but.

 

[markle]

Deleted

 

[amazon1675]

Are the 701s more energy efficient than existing stock? Not only their traction package,but their air-con and other passenger environment electrical draws? Wondering if the old 455s are cheaper to run,hence SWR are happy to keep using them? Just wondering if the economic case for the 701s has weakened since they were commissioned all those years ago ?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Hang on a second.

As a suburban passenger the new rolling stock is vitally important to me and it's not unreasonable for people to be getting impatient for their introduction.

Why?

• SWR still has not reinstated its full pre-covid timetable - it doesn't have enough rolling stock
• It no longer runs 10 car services for the vast majority of its suburban routes - it scrapped all the class 456 trains that it paired with the 455s

Combine these two factors and peak hour capacity from my local station is ~65% the pre-Covid capacity. I'm tired of the morning overcrowding, which on some days means longer dwell times at stations, and more service delays.

The new trains can't come soon enough

Quite. I find it somewhat condescending for us living in the 701 territory to be told by someone outside the area that we should be complacent with this farce. A combination of Bombardier, ASLEF/RMT and SWR have caused us to have a severely subpar service compared to what was promised.

Mind you, at least SWR have the grace not to taunt customers and wave round empty promises in customers’ faces. Transport for Wales have made their many poor delays to improvements all the worse for locals by the constant Metro advertising, much of which tells customers they’ll be guaranteed 100% brand new trains on routes by early 2023. Such a slap in the face to see that as you're wedged into the corner of a cramped and knackered 150.

Either way, it will be fantastic if the 701s do make their debut on Thursday, and I'm sure they'll be very well received, I just hope it won't be a case of Thursday only and months before another is seen. What an anti-climax that would be.

 

[Dan G]

Nothing in the data for that, however the workings for it are:

It's a single return journey off peak 7 minutes apart from regularly timetabled services. It seems entirely pointless apart from if it is used as an opportunity to run the class 701 in passenger service.

Thank you!

Are the 701s more energy efficient than existing stock? Not only their traction package,but their air-con and other passenger environment electrical draws? Wondering if the old 455s are cheaper to run,hence SWR are happy to keep using them? Just wondering if the economic case for the 701s has weakened since they were commissioned all those years ago ?

Aventras are much more energy efficient, and given the way electricity prices have gone in the last four years, the economic case will be stronger than ever

 

[43096]

Aventras are much more energy efficient, and given the way electricity prices have gone in the last four years, the economic case will be stronger than ever

Don’t forget that 455s have modern traction systems that have regenerative braking. A 701 is not going to be much if any better on that front and it has aircon that will consume more energy than a 455 - particularly in summer.

 

[Ian Hardy]

So on the 14th there could be 3 701 tests
1. Eastleigh Waterloo Poole Staines Eastleigh
2. Eastleigh Staines Southampton Eastleigh
3. Waterloo Windsor Waterloo

Your 1 & 2 services have 5XXX headcodes so are non-public services (i.e. test runs or training runs), however your item 3 services have 2XXX headcodes so are advertised as passenger services.

2U91 1025 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Q01629/2023-12-14/detailed

2U92 1130 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo​

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Q01630/2023-12-14/detailed

​

 

[Robin Procter]

Quite. I find it somewhat condescending for us living in the 701 territory to be told by someone outside the area that we should be complacent with this farce. A combination of Bombardier, ASLEF/RMT and SWR have caused us to have a severely subpar service compared to what was promised.

Mind you, at least SWR have the grace not to taunt customers and wave round empty promises in customers’ faces. Transport for Wales have made their many poor delays to improvements all the worse for locals by the constant Metro advertising, much of which tells customers they’ll be guaranteed 100% brand new trains on routes by early 2023. Such a slap in the face to see that as you're wedged into the corner of a cramped and knackered 150.

Either way, it will be fantastic if the 701s do make their debut on Thursday, and I'm sure they'll be very well received, I just hope it won't be a case of Thursday only and months before another is seen. What an anti-climax that would be.

.... Patient and realistic rather than condescending are what was intended by my comments. Stressing about travelling in crowded trains on railways or London Underground or buses or being delayed by road traffic jams etc achieves nothing except putting someone in a bad mood if they allow it to.

The 701's introduction into service will come soon now and then the rest will be history and we need not discuss it any longer. Perhaps expectations have been too high in the circumstances. Surely it's not the first railway train to be very late in its introduction and due to modern practices and regulation requirements etc etc etc future projects are likely to run late too.

In restrospect it might have been better to do what Apple and also several camera and software manufacturers do, which is to keep everything hush until launching a product to the public. On a recent visit inside Eastleigh Works I was asked not to photograph anything Hitachi and also not to publish my other photos yet.

I was going to photograph this Thursday the 14th's 701 in active service but have now been invited elsewhere that day. Not that anyone here is particularly interested in seeing such photos .

 

[Peter Wilde]

.... Do you not think that there many other rather more important matters to write to MPs about? Do you realise just how many incoming letters from the public that MPs have to deal with? Inform the Press if you like but don't hold your breath expecting publicity just because a new train set is late. It's normal for any major industrial design project such as a railway train to run later than the dates advertised by operating companies, and others, who can gain commercially from promoting their future introductions and their perceived benefits. Any MP would merely send you a polite acknowledgement and be highly unlikely to actually act on this matter.

You are still able to travel on SWR aren't you? A train will be along sooon, so it's time to chill and relax.

Of course there are other more important matters in the world if you mean Ukraine, Israel, COP 28 and the like.

But those are not things a UK Government can realistically be expected to do very much about.

The lateness of the SWR 701s on the other hand is a shocking waste of UK money - and inconveniences people who have had to put up with old, less good (and fewer) trains (and other stop-gap inefficiencies) for the 4 years of their lateness. All this should be drawn to people’s attention, as another indicator of just how poor the UK railways have been allowed to become.

Of course MPs get large bags of post from constituents. That (inter alia) is what they are for! The lack of any meaningful reply to one constituents’s letter does not mean the MP’s staff are not keeping tabs of the numbers of letters they receive, as a barometer of what constituents think is important.

The only way the running of our railways - and Government policy on them - is likely to improve is if sufficient numbers of people make a fuss. "Chilling and relaxing" is a good way to let services decline further as people give up on rail travel and switch to the roads.

 

[Robin Procter]

Of course there are other more important matters in the world if you mean Ukraine, Israel, COP 28 and the like.

But those are not things a UK Government can realistically be expected to do very much about.

The lateness of the SWR 701s on the other hand is a shocking waste of UK money - and inconveniences people who have had to put up with old, less good (and fewer) trains (and other stop-gap inefficiencies) for the 4 years of their lateness. All this should be drawn to people’s attention, as another indicator of just how poor the UK railways have been allowed to become.

Of course MPs get large bags of post from constituents. That (inter alia) is what they are for! The lack of any meaningful reply to one constituents’s letter does not mean the MP’s staff are not keeping tabs of the numbers of letters they receive, as a barometer of what constituents think is important.

The only way the running of our railways - and Government policy on them - is likely to improve is if sufficient numbers of people make a fuss. "Chilling and relaxing" is a good way to let services decline further as people give up on rail travel and switch to the roads.

.... Fair enough. Thanks for taking the time to respond.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

it's an STP Runs as Required path.

The possible service has lost it's "runs as required" tag

 

[Goldfish62]

The possible service has lost it's "runs as required" tag

The anticipation is building!

Although I've got commitments on Thursday I've worked out a way of doing a short trip if it does indeed run.

 

[Class15]

The big question is whether this will just be another 707 moment and then the 701s go back into store, or whether this marks a gradual entry into service from here on.

 

[markle]

Deleted

 

[norbitonflyer]

1D12 today is a good illustration of the rolling stock issues and why the 701s can't come soon enough.

Realtime Trains | 1D12 0701 Dorking to London Waterloo | 12/12/2023

Real-time train running information for 1D12 0701 departure from Dorking to London Waterloo on 12/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Epsom service has been halved since Covid. And then to compound things, 1D12 was short formed today with only 5 cars, presumably due to a lack of available rolling stock. Cue long dwell times at each station on the way, as passengers tried (and failed) to get on, and the doors failed to close properly due to crowding. Train eventually had to run fast from Wimbledon, but not before causing knock on delays to the services behind it, with the accumulated crowding at Raynes Park / Wimbledon / Earlsfield further lengthenging dwell times for those services.

Cancelling the preceding Chessington service can't have helped, and I see that 1D14 (the following Dorking service) didn't run either. 2D14 (Guildford) must have been cosy! - and was nearly 20 late by Waterloo